[srb]

On the Naim side, if you believe the Naim theory (star grounding, less eddy currents, less connector mass) you would go with the DIN - no extra circuitry, just a different connector in parallel with the RCAs.
 
On the BDA-1 side, I usually only connect a single-ended cable to half of a balanced XLR connection if it's the only option, which it's not.  This is James Tanner's circle, so he and his engineers would probably be the best source to comment on the single-ended RCA vs single-ended XLR output on the Bryston.
 
Steve

[Diamond Dog]

Thanks, Steve !

D.D.

[Diamond Dog]

  No manufacturer in their right mind will tell you RCAs are used solely due to sound quality.  It's a compromised design that's pretty much only used as a mainstream convenience.

"Yes the Shrimp is entirely a single-ended design. The circuitry uses single-ended topology. In order to be able to provide balanced inputs or outputs we would have to convert the signal to balanced using something like some IC's or transformers. Both these options would add more "stuff" to the signal and be certainly audible detracting from the pure sound the Shrimp provides. If you are dealing with balanced source outputs or driving a balanced amplifier with the Shrimp, check to see if you also have unbalanced connections on that gear, change your cables and go with that. You might be pleasantly surprised that they too added extra audible "stuff" in order to provide balanced XLRs and the RCAs that don't have that extra "stuff" in the signal path actually sound better. (Depends on a given unit's specific design.) Or use some RCA to XLR adaptors. Most balanced gear has no problem being driven single ended but check with the manufacturer if they are going to want the negative pin 3 of the XLR grounded or floating. Transformer-coupled XLR jacks always can be driven single-ended by running HOT into Pin 2 and grounding pin 3 to pin 1. Some IC coupled XLR inputs will want pin 3 floating, others will require it to be grounded when running single-ended into it. Check with the manufacturer of your gear to see how to hook it up single-ended."
 
       EveAnna Manley discussing why they opted not to offer balanced inputs/outputs on the Manley Shrimp and Jumbo Shrimp preamps .

I have her email address if you'd like to tell her that she is not " in her right mind ". Better yet, why not do it in person ? I'd love to be there...
Aren't absolutes fun?

D.D. 

[srb]

No manufacturer in their right mind will tell you RCAs are used solely due to sound quality.  It's a compromised design that's pretty much only used as a mainstream convenience.

I have her [EveAnna Manley] email address if you'd like to tell her that she is not " in her right mind ". Better yet, why not do it in person ? I'd love to be there...

D.D., If I understand Stu correctly, he's not saying that single-ended connections are inferior, but that the physical implementation of the RCA connector is not the best choice compared to say, DIN or BNC, but somehow became, and has remained, the convention in single-ended consumer connectors.
 
Steve

[Hogg]

If you choose to use a DIN to XLR connection, here is the wiring diagram.




Jim

[Stu Pitt]

 
D.D., If I understand Stu correctly, he's not saying that single-ended connections are inferior, but that the physical implementation of the RCA connector is not the best choice compared to say, DIN or BNC, but somehow became, and has remained, the convention in single-ended consumer connectors.
 
Steve

That is what I was trying to say, however you put it more articulately than I could.  The RCA connection is very compromised compared to XLR (and DIN) for several reasons.

As to DINs vs RCAs on Naim gear...  Listen to Naim gear and you should be able to hear it.  It's not too subtle.  I should also disclose that I'm not the biggest cable fan.  Different cables sound different, but I've never heard a cable make or break a system, by any means.  DIN vs RCA on Naim gear makes a very appreciable difference to my ears. 

[headshrinker2]

Thanks to all who have replied constructively.   I am planning on using RCA-DIN.  James, care to chime in here? 

I was primarily looking for input on the Bryston end of things- specifically whether to go single-ended RCA vs single-ended XLR.   I've read many points of view on the interconnect options- including that the advantage of a superior RCA-RCA interconnect will trump any advantage from using DIN.  I've also read different opinions about DIN-XLR.  Finally, cables do make a difference in my system.  I like to set things up well, and enjoy the music.  I'm not an endless tweaker.

Rather than re-invent the wheel, or do expensive comparisons, I have always benefit greatly from those who have used (or auditioned) similar systems.  I am open to learn, but my ears and wallet always make the final decisions. 

[James Tanner]

Thanks to all who have replied constructively.   I am planning on using RCA-DIN.  James, care to chime in here? 

I was primarily looking for input on the Bryston end of things- specifically whether to go single-ended RCA vs single-ended XLR.   I've read many points of view on the interconnect options- including that the advantage of a superior RCA-RCA interconnect will trump any advantage from using DIN.  I've also read different opinions about DIN-XLR.  Finally, cables do make a difference in my system.  I like to set things up well, and enjoy the music.  I'm not an endless tweaker.

Rather than re-invent the wheel, or do expensive comparisons, I have always benefit greatly from those who have used (or auditioned) similar systems.  I am open to learn, but my ears and wallet always make the final decisions.

Hi headshrinker,

I have no experience at all with Din type connectors so sorry no input from my end.

I use XLR Balanced connectors thoughout my systems as I find the noise floor improves.

james

[headshrinker2]

James,
I appreciate the straightforward reply.  I will post this question on the Naim forums to see what folks over there think as well. 

Thanks.

[srb]

Hi headshrinker,
I use XLR Balanced connectors thoughout my systems as I find the noise floor improves.

Yes, but the connection to the Naim will be single-ended, not balanced, whether RCA or DIN is used.  Would you make the single-ended connection to the BDA-1 with RCA, or would you use the XLR connection even though it would have to be single-ended?
 
Steve

[werd]

Hi

Just try the rca or xlr. I wouldn't look to far for a din adaptor unless there is one readily available somewhere. If you had an all Naim set up then the din is what you want. You don't have that so try an xlr  or an rca. The din adaptor may lose some of its appeal when used outside of Naim gear. Try both if you can because xlr may not sound the best and rca maybe better aside from all the spec related posts you read about it.

[James Tanner]

Yes, but the connection to the Naim will be single-ended, not balanced, whether RCA or DIN is used.  Would you make the single-ended connection to the BDA-1 with RCA, or would you use the XLR connection even though it would have to be single-ended?
 
Steve

There is NO advantage in going from a Balanced connector to an Unbalanced connector if common mode noise rejection is the goal.

james

[srb]

There is NO advantage in going from a Balanced connector to an Unbalanced connector if common mode noise rejection is the goal.

Understood.  Is there any possible disadvantage making the single-ended connection to half of the XLR balanced output?
 
Steve

[James Tanner]

Understood.  Is there any possible disadvantage making the single-ended connection to half of the XLR balanced output?
 
Steve

Hi Steve

Not that I am aware of other than some connectors are designed with specific impedances for specific applications. For example on our digital cables the BNC connector is a 75 ohm connector.

James

[Stu Pitt]

Werd,

I want talking about an adaptor, as in connecting one to an RCA cable.  I was talking about a cable that has a DIN connector at one end, and an RCA or XLR on the other.  I think this is what everyone else was saying too, but I shouldn't put words into anyone's mouth.

A few companies make such a cable.  Chord and Nordost come to mind.  Naim used to make a relatively inexpensive one, but I haven't seen it listed on their site recently.  Their top of the line interconnect is available in a DIN to RCA configuration, but it's several hundred dollars, if I'm not mistaken. 

[werd]

Werd,

I want talking about an adaptor, as in connecting one to an RCA cable.  I was talking about a cable that has a DIN connector at one end, and an RCA or XLR on the other.  I think this is what everyone else was saying too, but I shouldn't put words into anyone's mouth.

A few companies make such a cable.  Chord and Nordost come to mind.  Naim used to make a relatively inexpensive one, but I haven't seen it listed on their site recently.  Their top of the line interconnect is available in a DIN to RCA configuration, but it's several hundred dollars, if I'm not mistaken.

I mentioned, if one was readily available but i wouldn't make a big effort in finding it. The bda will dictate what he uses anyways. If he can find a rca/din connect then great. But probably not right. So he is left with good ole rca or xlr.

[Diamond Dog]

  I've read many points of view on the interconnect options- including that the advantage of a superior RCA-RCA interconnect will trump any advantage from using DIN.  I've also read different opinions about DIN-XLR.  Finally, cables do make a difference in my system.  I like to set things up well, and enjoy the music.  I'm not an endless tweaker.

100% agreement from my experience. Cables can make a huge difference - a fact I have had driven home to me recently as I had the opportunity to audition several IC's and speaker cables in my system. FWIW if it were my money, knowing that there is no advantage going unbalanced to balanced, I would seriously consider keeping it simple and just going for a very good IC with RCA's. Your gear will reflect the investment. If you decide to go another route in future, you'll have a much easier time finding another use for it elsewhere in your system or for that matter reselling it. It'll be a lot easier finding another home for an IC with RCA's as opposed to an IC with less common ends on it which will dramatically limit it's utility and its desirability on the resale market. You've got to think that if the advantages of esoteric connections such as DIN's were as definitive as some would have you believe, their use would be a lot more prevalent in the audio industry. And it simply isn't .
 I'm not a tweaker either and I think your ultimate goal of just doing it once , doing it right and then getting on with the business at hand ( which is, of course, MUSIC ) is something a lot of people seem to lose track of as they agonize over ways to achieve what are in effect pretty marginal gains in sound quality. Let's hope your message spreads. And sinks in... 

D.D.