[headshrinker2]

After recently hearing a great DAC in my system (Bryston BDA-1), I am exploring different source options in my 2-channel rig- including using my MacBook Pro laptop. 

Even after reading forums for the past few weeks, I find I am a bit dizzy and overwhelmed in the face of so many options/alternatives.  Is there any general consensus on the best way to use a MBP as a source?  I am interested in extracting the best sound quality possible.

(1) Optical out vs USB?
(2) Cables matter much?  If so, any specific recommendations?
(2) USB out needing some kind of special converter?

Thanks very much in advance. 

 

[wywires]

After recently hearing a great DAC in my system (Bryston BDA-1), I am exploring different source options in my 2-channel rig- including using my MacBook Pro laptop. 

Even after reading forums for the past few weeks, I find I am a bit dizzy and overwhelmed in the face of so many options/alternatives.  Is there any general consensus on the best way to use a MBP as a source?  I am interested in extracting the best sound quality possible.

(1) Optical out vs USB?
(2) Cables matter much?  If so, any specific recommendations?
(2) USB out needing some kind of special converter?

Thanks very much in advance.

USB from the MAC to the DAC is the way to go. Forget optical! No special converters are required to stream digital directly from the MAC via USB. iTunes will provide a good starting point but you may want to look into Sonic Studio Amarra as an add on to iTunes to enable high rez playback.

Yes cables do make a difference.

Alex

[skunark]

You have two easy options, USB and Optical:
* USB connection will be limited by the Bryston to 48/24 playback.
* Optical connection will be limited by the MBP to 96/24 (can vary between models and OS version).   If you haven't noticed the headphone output also doubles as a mini-jack optical output. Looks a bit like this:

[srb]

Optical S/PDIF out on the Mac is generally limited to 24/96.  If you do go optical, a quality plastic fiber cable is often as good as a glass fiber cable for lengths under 100 feet.
 
Differences in coaxial S/PDIF cables are often more discernible because you are also dealing with the effects of impedance matching and signal reflection.
 
I also think USB out of the Mac is preferable, either directly into a USB DAC or with a USB to S/PDIF coaxial converter.  Some DACs are designed for USB only, some have a USB input designed with equal attention to quality as the S/PDIF inputs, and others may have a USB input only added as a compatibility feature.  In the case of the latter, these DACS often benefit using the USB to S/PDIF coaxial converter.
 
Steve

[wywires]

I do believe that the Bryston has a very good USB input beyond just a convenience feature. At least that's what people who have them have told me.

[srb]

I do believe that the Bryston has a very good USB input beyond just a convenience feature. At least that's what people who have them have told me.

Like you say, based on other Bryston BDA-1 owner's comparisons between USB and S/PDIF inputs, that seems to be the consensus.  If I had no need or want for higher resolution than 16/48 I would just go with a USB cable into the Bryston.  If I needed or wanted to support up to 24/96 or up to 24/192, then I would add the appropriate USB to S/PDIF converter.
 
Steve

[chrisby]

while something like the HRT Musicstreamer II is an almost brain-dead suggestion for a bus powered dedicated USB DAC that by all accounts punches far outside its weight class, it's surprising that no-one's yet suggested Firewire and any of number of DACs, such as reasonably affordable Edirol, etc.,  to the as much as you wanna spend Weiss and others.

Of course if you want to go wireless, your options are currently somewhat limited.  AEx / ATV are very affordable, but restricted to Redbook resolution and output formats - optical only on AEx and HDMI / Toslink on the ATV.


I'm living with separate audio only and HT systems with the above named devices, both streamed wirelessly from a MBP; and while the convenience factor is great, the sound quality definitely suffers by comparison to direct Toslink connection to DAC, or even more so a borrowed Edirol /UA25 (USB) or  FA66. (FW)

The great advantage of something like the semi-pro musical interface Edirol or TC Electronic Impact Twin is ability to use the mike preamp stage to capture analog direct from turntable for digitizing your vinyl collection with software such as PureVinyl.


edit:

oh, wait - how long before the options will include option for Thunderbolt interface?

 

[pardales]

USB out from your mbp gives you a wide variety of dac's to choose from. There are plenty of good USB cables but consider starting with something not too expensive like a wireworld starlight, cardas clear, or locus design polestar.

I love the HRT II+ for a USB powered dac. The bda-1 is likely in a different league. USB implementation on a dac is very important and needs to be thoughtfully implemented. Ive used a mbp as a transport before and though it quite good -- only bettered by a tweaked Mac mini.

[simon wagstaff]

I don't think USB our of a Mac book is really the way to go. You need to have an asychronous receiver chip to reduce the jitter which is relatively high in USB without it. Optical is the way to go unless you can get your hands on a firewire DAC, which is likely the best option.

Also you probably want to avoid iTunes. I use COG and it works very well for me as playback software. I don't use iTunes though, I have flacs in folders and just drag them into the play list. Kind of old school.

What I really like about COG is that it seems to play just about any files from FLAC to SHN to apple lossless without problems.

[chrisby]

Simon - you might want to check out the various reviews of the HRT MusicStreamer products.  I've not heard any myself, but by all accounts "not your grampa's USB DAC"

OTOH, having heard at least one sample of "budget" FW DAC (Edirol FA66), it's hard to disagree that type couldn't offer potential for better performance - provided that you keep any external hard drives or other devices on the USB bus. 

[simon wagstaff]

Simon - you might want to check out the various reviews of the HRT MusicStreamer products.  I've not heard any myself, but by all accounts "not your grampa's USB DAC"

OTOH, having heard at least one sample of "budget" FW DAC (Edirol FA66), it's hard to disagree that type couldn't offer potential for better performance - provided that you keep any external hard drives or other devices on the USB bus.

I don't really see why I would need some sort of streamer or converter product.  The optical out from my mac mini works well, if I wanted to use USB I could, my dac has a usb input as well. However it is not one that reduces jitter that seems to be inherent in standard USB implementation. With the sort of phase lock that newer USB dacs seem to have I am sure that is a good option as well though it seems you still need to be careful in terms of which ones will handle 24/96. The toslink from my mac mini seems to do fine with 24/96 though I don't think it will do 24/192.

I have a firewire connection between my DVD player and receiver that works extremely well. Like most audio products that are iconoclastic and superior firewire connections seems to have been abandoned.

So, I have three hard drives with the files stored in folders in various formats as I have collected them. SHN, FLAC, apple lossless etc. COG seems to take care of them all without a hitch. I simply drag the files into the playlist. I have never really figured out iTunes, knucklehead that I am but it seems I am just missing out on the statistical aspects of iTunes and cover art, which I can do without.

I am still trying to figure out what a $5K music server would do that my Mac mini in it's current configuration won't do.

[chrisby]

I don't really see why I would need some sort of streamer or converter product.  The optical out from my mac mini works well, if I wanted to use USB I could, my dac has a usb input as well. However it is not one that reduces jitter that seems to be inherent in standard USB implementation. With the sort of phase lock that newer USB dacs seem to have I am sure that is a good option as well though it seems you still need to be careful in terms of which ones will handle 24/96. The toslink from my mac mini seems to do fine with 24/96 though I don't think it will do 24/192.

the suggestion was in response to your comment  " I don't think USB our of a Mac book is really the way to go. You need to have an asychronous receiver chip to reduce the jitter which is relatively high in USB without it. Optical is the way to go unless you can get your hands on a firewire DAC, which is likely the best option"

I was pointing out that for folks wanting to try the USB route, the HRT MusicStreamer (actually a bus powered Asynchronous DAC designed for exactly this type of application) was a simple to use plug and play device. 
While they will handle 96, there are more than a few reviews of this company's products that speak of how well even standard redbook can sound. 


Certainly a Firewire DAC has potential for better performance - and less contention with external devices (keyboards, mice, drives, printers, etc ) running on USB-but with the exception of entry level models such at the Edirol I mentioned, I'm not aware of any that aren't at least the same (or several times more than) cost of zooted-out mini or MBP  itself. 

I have a firewire connection between my DVD player and receiver that works extremely well. Like most audio products that are iconoclastic and superior firewire connections seems to have been abandoned.

So, I have three hard drives with the files stored in folders in various formats as I have collected them. SHN, FLAC, apple lossless etc. COG seems to take care of them all without a hitch. I simply drag the files into the playlist. I have never really figured out iTunes, knucklehead that I am but it seems I am just missing out on the statistical aspects of iTunes and cover art, which I can do without.

I am still trying to figure out what a $5K music server would do that my Mac mini in it's current configuration won't do.

out of curiosity, are each of the different file formats stored on separate outboard drives?



Something like you mention is on my upgrade wish list - probably starting with the mini first; as my Citypulse DAC is 24/192 "ready", I'd probably be ready to start downloading a few Hi-Res tracks to taste test.   If  COGS (or any other player)  can output 24/196 on the MBP's mini-Toslink, I'd presumably only need to install the player and start my engines?


as to the latter, qualify the owner for bragging rights and hearty welcome &  cappuccino when visiting his hi-fi shop, as well as help pay the salesman's  kid's college tuition perhaps?   this type of "loyal" customer is usually on the semi-annual "upgrade" mailing list ( a la Linn,  AudioNote,  etc.)

[simon wagstaff]

The files are all mixed up in terms of where they are stored and on what drives.  I would have to check but I don't think the optical out will not do 24/192, just 24/96.

I

[chrisby]

The files are all mixed up in terms of where they are stored and on what drives.  I would have to check but I don't think the optical out will not do 24/192, just 24/96.

I

I had a chance to audition a few downloaded HD (24/96) tracks yesterday afternoon - starting with a Reference Recordings sampler, and Paul McCartney/Wings "Band on the Run" - so now I can see what the fuss is about.

Of course performance and mixing/engineering can still be predictably all over the map, but the format certainly delivers more information.

return to "Go"   
 

[gary]

I've been using USB from my Macbook Pro into an Audio-GD Dac-19 MK3, I just switched to a $2 toslink cable from monoprice and the improvement was dramatic. IMO this is absolutely the way to go if you want to use the MBP as a source (unless you're going to go with an asynchronous USB Dac or one of the USB to SPDIF converters).

Software wise, I had been using Audirvana in Mac OS but I've switched to fidelizer and foobar2000 in Windows 7 (bootcamp) and I like what I'm hearing. Now, with the toslink, I REALLY like what I'm hearing.

gary

[simon wagstaff]

I don't quite understand all the love for USB out of the mac when the toslink is right there. No need to purchase an outboard converter.

What is the reason for a preference for USB?

I use COG which is free and decodes just about anything.

[Crimson]

I don't think there is any over-reaching preference for USB per se, it's just a matter of the preference of dac. For example, of the two dacs I'm currently using, neither has an SPDIF input. One is USB and the other is FireWire (both of which are available on a Mac just like the optical port), both async.

As to playback software, I prefer Pure Music over Core Audio (which, BTW, is also used by Cog) with the file management features of iTunes. It's all personal preference, and I think it's a good thing there are multiple options.

[Nels Ferre]

I don't quite understand all the love for USB out of the mac when the toslink is right there. No need to purchase an outboard converter.

What is the reason for a preference for USB?

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you want easy with no extra parts and no extra cash outlay, the Toslink is fine.

Want higher resolution than 24.96? Toslink won't work, you must use a USB converter. The sound of my USB converter slays the Toslink connection anyway, so it's a win-win. I'm thinking the USB connection has much lower jitter than the optical connection. The improvement isn't subtle.

I know where you are coming from, though. I used to think the exact same thing. Your logic was part of my logic when I switched to Mac a couple of years ago.

[headshrinker2]

Thanks everyone.  Good info.