[Darac]

Bi-Amping, bi-wiring!
Prompted by the debate on the Bryston cicrcleu, opening a unique theme. VMPS speakers with dual speaker terminals. So for them  option would Amping-and bi-wiring. According to the draft of what it has done-Rod Eliot is necessary to draw a passive crossover and active crossover use or special low-pass filter connected to an amplifier, a high-pass filter connected to the second amplifier and to connect all the speakers. I am not a supporter of dissolving a crossover that is designed by a designer. So I'm interested Briananovo thinking about this variant.
I think that the bi-Amping is necessary that both amplifiers is identical, both technically and sonic quality and character.

[Darac]

No one to comment ??

[Darac]

Oh yes, I saw the picture that John Casler has a combination of amplifiers and Anthem and  Ampzille. Is that Bi-Amping or something else?

[Pez]

I am Tri-amping with uncommon amplifiers. I am using 2 DIY set amps 8 watts each for the mid panels and tweeter. I am using a pro amp solid state QSC DCA 1222. I am using a modded DCX digital crossover and I am able to get bone crushing volumes no problem. Direct coupled setup is absolutely king. There is absolutely no logic in stating that all amps must be the same. Use the best amp for the drivers you are pushing. Usually that means a smaller amp on the mids and tweeter drivers and a heavier duty amp for the woofers.

Check out my system here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=26

And amps here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73713.0

[John Casler]

Bi-Amping, bi-wiring!
Prompted by the debate on the Bryston cicrcleu, opening a unique theme. VMPS speakers with dual speaker terminals. So for them  option would Amping-and bi-wiring. According to the draft of what it has done-Rod Eliot is necessary to draw a passive crossover and active crossover use or special low-pass filter connected to an amplifier, a high-pass filter connected to the second amplifier and to connect all the speakers. I am not a supporter of dissolving a crossover that is designed by a designer. So I'm interested Briananovo thinking about this variant.
I think that the bi-Amping is necessary that both amplifiers is identical, both technically and sonic quality and character.

Hi Darac,

First we need to define and clear up all the variables:

1) Biamping will mean two amps powering the same speaker

2) Biwiring will mean separate speaker cables will terminate at two differing binding posts but originate from a SINGLE amp channel

Now regarding your question on biamping with different amps;

If the amps you are considering have differing sensitivities/impedances and you are using a PASSIVE XO, (like either the built in Passive or the OXO Passive) then you will need a way to way to equalize their inputs or outputs so that each speaker section receives the appropriate level of power.

If you are using an adjustable electronic XO (like the VMPS D-OXO) then those differences can be adjusted in the DOXO (as in PEZ's example)

[John Casler]

Oh yes, I saw the picture that John Casler has a combination of amplifiers and Anthem and  Ampzille. Is that Bi-Amping or something else?

Hi Darac,

Not sure what picture you saw, but I don't use Anthem gear so it wasn't in my system.

I generally SINGLE amp the mains, but of course use a separate amp for the SUBS so we have a form of biamping if you use the definition loosley.

[Darac]

The picture where you pushed RM V60 is the rack with Anthem surround amplification and Ampzilla amp.

[Stimpy]

Hey Pez!

Just curious, what output tubes do you run in your set 8 watt amps?  And your RM40's really 'crank'
with that small amount of power on the mids and highs?  I'd like to try something similar to your
set-up, and while I don't often crank-it-up, I don't want to blown a driver with too little power
as well.   

Also, slightly off topic, can you describe the amps?  Hard to build?  Self designed, or from a kit?
If you have any details in a separate thread, please point the way!

Thanks,

Stimpy

I am Tri-amping with uncommon amplifiers. I am using 2 DIY set amps 8 watts each for the mid panels and tweeter. I am using a pro amp solid state QSC DCA 1222. I am using a modded DCX digital crossover and I am able to get bone crushing volumes no problem. Direct coupled setup is absolutely king. There is absolutely no logic in stating that all amps must be the same. Use the best amp for the drivers you are pushing. Usually that means a smaller amp on the mids and tweeter drivers and a heavier duty amp for the woofers.

Check out my system here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=26

And amps here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73713.0

[John Casler]

The picture where you pushed RM V60 is the rack with Anthem surround amplification and Ampzilla amp.

Got it.

Actually that is a customer's system.  He was not biamping, but beleive it or not was running his surrounds with the AMPZILLAS

He already had the Anthem gear.

[Darac]

John, in your opinion, how it works VMPS with Anthem electronics?

[Pez]

Stimpy,
Check out www.tubelab.com . Depending on your proficiency the simple se can be a very easy project or quite challenging. This is not a kit, the only thing you get from tubelab is the board. The rest you must order from various suppliers.

Now in regards to how well this amp works with the 40s it is incredible to say the least. When triamped you are able to take advantage of a few things.

 1st each amp is working in within a limited bandwidth. In my case the mid ribbons are working between 300hz and 7khz and the tweeter is 7khz to. 20khz.

2nd the 40s mid panels present a nearly ideal resistive load to the amplifier and SET amps thrive on this. It's almost as if some sort of godly sonic threshold is surpassed, seriously. When you are no longer worried about providing gigawatts of power you can focus on getting the most delicate, emotional and smooth presentation that 99.9% of amplifiers on the market really are just not capable of achieving.

3rd with no passive crossover each amp can really be pushed to it's outer limits with no audible distortion. Case in point, my woofer amp has a clip indication light, it puts out somewhere between 400-600 watts. The clip indicator lights up well before I can hear any distortion from the tube amps. I can push well over 110 dB probably closer to 120 dB no problem. For me these levels are uncomfortably loud and I never listen this loud. I have had audiophile friends over who have described the dynamic range as startling.

Tyson maybe can chime in and give his opinion, but he doesn't listen at ridiculous levels either.

One last thing, tube Amps distort differently from solid state amps. Where a solid state amp might distort in very dangerous ways that can cause driver damage very quickly and easily a tube amp tends to just poop out. Not saying it won't cause driver damage, but it's far less likely.

Oh, I forgot to mention. The tubes I'm using are KT88s for the output tubes, a 12at7 for the signal tube. And a 5AR4 rectifier.

If you missed it check out my build here, it's pretty descriptive. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73713.0

[John Casler]

John, in your opinion, how it works VMPS with Anthem electronics?

Anthem, should be quite good with VMPS.  Since I am not a dealer, I haven't heard them extensively like BRYSTON, NuFORCE, AMPZILLA, CineNova, ATI, Seymour, Atmasphere, DeHavilland, and a few others I carry.