Bass perception, Live vs Recorded

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Mag

Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« on: 3 Apr 2011, 03:48 pm »
If you have ever done the comparison between a 'live' band vs a recording while the impression is still fresh in your ears. A recording will sound flat, unbalanced and unrealistic with bass & percussion, due to compression whereas the mids & highs are perceived to be realistic.

Boosting the bass freq. compensate for this perceived recording imbalance. Bryston sources correct this perceived imbalance, though using the word boost is incorrect. 8)

rollo

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Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #1 on: 3 Apr 2011, 04:19 pm »
  Bryston  amps were always known for their bass performance and still are. Ya wanna hear drums done right. Sheffield drum and CD with Jim Keltner.


charles

Sasha

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Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #2 on: 3 Apr 2011, 04:25 pm »
Have done so, properly recorded material does not sound flat at all and when played on dynamically capable system. And the recording was made using quite inexpensive equipment.

niels

Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #3 on: 3 Apr 2011, 10:55 pm »
Dont really know what you mean here, there is no comparison between recorded sound and live.


If you have ever done the comparison between a 'live' band vs a recording while the impression is still fresh in your ears. A recording will sound flat, unbalanced and unrealistic with bass & percussion, due to compression whereas the mids & highs are perceived to be realistic.

Boosting the bass freq. compensate for this perceived recording imbalance. Bryston sources correct this perceived imbalance, though using the word boost is incorrect. 8)

Brian Cheney

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Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #4 on: 3 Apr 2011, 10:59 pm »
Having done three years' worth of live vs recorded demonstrations, I can tell you that flexible speakers and some room correction are required in order to make live and reproduced bass sound virtually identical.  But we did it.  Check the VMPS circle for full reports, and links to reviews.

JBLMVBC

Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #5 on: 4 Apr 2011, 12:25 am »
It of course depends on the system capacity to reproduce live sound levels. As we've seen so many times most average sensitivity speakers (90 to 94 dB/w/m) simply won't cut it regardless of the amount of power you feed them. Doubling power will get you an extra 3 dB per speaker and you'll quickly run out of power short of making a hat with your woofers... :lol:
Then comes the quality of bass and that directly depends on the driver being used: the magnet size, mobile mass and area moved by the driver are critical. Most subwoofer designs use heavy mobile mass making them equivalent to boom boxes that lose the tone of the bass. Also many designs these days go for cheaper, slimmer look and bring many small drivers rather than a large driver that would need little displacement -therefore less distortion- to create a bass. This in turn introduce other problems such as spatial coherency problem and distortion due to membrane displacement. Imo better few drivers but top quality rather than a whole bunch of them.
Mag, I do not think Bryston amps "correct" anything. They just feed whatever signal is there.

Mag

Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #6 on: 4 Apr 2011, 12:50 am »
>>Mag, I do not think Bryston amps "correct" anything. They just feed whatever signal is there.<<

I'm not referring to the amps, but their digital sources.

I'm saying bass freq. needs a 6 db increase in recording playback, to compensate for the way our ears perceive bass & drums compared to how we hear it live. Because of compression methods typically used in recording bass instruments.

I believe Bryston compensates for this in their DAC design, though I don't know how they do it. :?

JBLMVBC

Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #7 on: 4 Apr 2011, 01:38 am »
RIAA corrections curves?
I found BDP-1/BDA-1 to have slight stronger bass than my Unidisk 1.1 but this is very not proeminent. :|

95Dyna

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Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #8 on: 4 Apr 2011, 04:28 pm »
Have done so, properly recorded material does not sound flat at all and when played on dynamically capable system. And the recording was made using quite inexpensive equipment.

Right on the money, Sasha.  I'll support your argument with The Ray Brown Trio's Soular Energy on 180g Pure Audiophile double LP.  This is an exceptionally done recording.  Come to my house and have a seat, close your eyes and you would swear your were Live at Scullers in NYC.  The double bass is sitting in the center of the stage about 3 ft. out.  You can hear all the transient sounds of the double bass such as fingers sliding up the string and hammering the fret board.  The ambience of a small jazz club comes through as well with the subtle sounds generated by the audience.  I used to go to a local restaurant that had a small lounge upstairs where the frequent entertainment would be a piano and bass duet and I don't recall it sounding this real.  Back to the point, in the course of evaluating components never forget to consider the recording as arguably the most important one.

1oldguy

Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #9 on: 4 Apr 2011, 04:48 pm »
Right on the money, Sasha.  I'll support your argument with The Ray Brown Trio's Soular Energy on 180g Pure Audiophile double LP.  This is an exceptionally done recording.  Come to my house and have a seat, close your eyes and you would swear your were Live at Scullers in NYC.  The double bass is sitting in the center of the stage about 3 ft. out.  You can hear all the transient sounds of the double bass such as fingers sliding up the string and hammering the fret board.  The ambience of a small jazz club comes through as well with the subtle sounds generated by the audience.  I used to go to a local restaurant that had a small lounge upstairs where the frequent entertainment would be a piano and bass duet and I don't recall it sounding this real.  Back to the point, in the course of evaluating components never forget to consider the recording as arguably the most important one.


Hi Dyna

Sometimes realism  can be taken to far.I remember a friend of mine getting some very nice power cords and new speaker cable.Instead of imagining the artist in his room,the artist actually appeared with other band member following suit including the bands gear, all crammed into his small house.It sure was crowded. :icon_lol: :lol:


95Dyna

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Re: Bass perception, Live vs Recorded
« Reply #10 on: 4 Apr 2011, 04:52 pm »

Hi Dyna

Sometimes realism  can be taken to far.I remember a friend of mine getting some very nice power cords and new speaker cable.Instead of imagining the artist in his room,the artist actually appeared with other band member following suit including the bands gear, all crammed into his small house.It sure was crowded. :icon_lol: :lol:

Yes, I suppose it to be a bit of a stretch to claim that Ray Brown is appearing in my living room since he is no longer with us.  Who's next, Ray Charles :lol: