Birdland Odeon AG

Carlman · « **on:** 29 Mar 2004, 06:53 pm »

So, how 'bout it? Anyone heard this DAC?:Birdland Odeon AG?

It was recommended to me by someone I trust. I know Marbles and Josh were considering it a while back... what happened?

Just curious... I have a digital comparison I'm putting together... Trying to find an analog-type sound in digital... with all the details, nuance and palpability in tact... not smoothed-over, just smooth

....

Naim CD5i
Pioneer 563a mod'd by APL
Birdland?

Thanks...
Carl

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 08:00 pm »

In my case I heard the Empirical Audio modded Perp Tech P3a and new it was the right one for me and my system.

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 08:01 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

In my case I heard the Empirical Audio modded Perp Tech P3a and new it was the right one for me and my system.

So, did you not ever get to hear the Bird?

-C

Marbles · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

Quote from: Marbles
In my case I heard the Empirical Audio modded Perp Tech P3a and new it was the right one for me and my system.

So, did you not ever get to hear the Bird?

-C

I did not ever hear the Bird.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 11:47 pm »

6moons.com reviewed the Birdland a while back. There may have been a few changes made to the dac since that review though. I think that The Cable Co. has the unit available for demo if your really interested. At least they used to.

Andy

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 12:03 am »

Carl,

I would add the Electrocompaniet ECD-1 DAC to your list.

I have directly compared it to the stock P3-A and Birdland. It is very smooth and natural sounding without being edgy or unnaturally detailed. BTW, I believe it uses the same chipset as the P3-A.

It also has the added benfit of 4 digital inputs and both xlr and rca outs.

George

TIC · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 12:34 am »

And it also has the benefit of a remote controlled volume control so you can forgo a pre-amp in a digital only system.

Enjoy,

TIC

BTW, I owned the Birldland O'Deon lite (not the same DAC) for a while and it did nothing for me. It was especially soft in the bass and didn't have good bass definition IMS.

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 12:46 am »

I found that the volume control wasn't very good.

Plan on using a preamp.

George

TIC · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 01:54 am »

Zybar,

That's interesting! Birdland touts it as being excellent. Oh well, so much for truth in advertising!

TIC

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 01:58 am »

Who doesn't tout their own gear?

George

earlmarc · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 02:41 am »

Carlman, the Birdland Audio Ag with Reclocker is an excellent DAC. I heard the previous Ag, but not the newer version. I would suspect it would be at the top of the list among DACs in its price: Musical Fidelity, Bel Canto, Perpetual Tech, etc. Its also priced higher than all of these DACs at $1850. But if I had to choose between the Birdland, Naim CD5i, APL DV-563A and Empirial Audio P-3A, I would probably be inclined to go with APL Pioneer DV-563A if budget were a concern or the Empirical Audio modified P-3A.

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 02:55 am »

Earlmarc,

Have you actually listened to the dacs listed?

I have listened to CD5 w/ flatcap II, Modwright P3-A, Audionote DAC 1, Metronome, and Birdland. In my system and to my ears, the ECD-1 was a clear winner.

Also, when I brought the dac to the NY Audio Rave meeting in February, everybody was quite impressed by it.

Obviously there are no absolutes and what I like or say is just my two cents. I do feel that the ECD-1 should be on anybody's list who is looking for a dac under $3K.

As always YMMV.

George

earlmarc · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 04:27 am »

I have listened to the Birdland without reclocker, Naim CD5i and CD5, the Musical Fidelity, and P-3A. I have not listened to the Empirical P-3A or the ECD-1. But if am not mistaken, the ECD-1 is a $2000 DAC. I am sure its a fine DAC and I have read about it. Steve at Empirical Audio offers a mod to the EMC1UP CDP, but I think he prefers his modified P-3A over the ECD1UP.

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 04:44 am »

I have talked with Steve about the ECD-1 vs. P3-A. Both are very good, but have different presentations. Steve says the P3-A is more accurate and the ECD-1 a little sweeter sounding.

From comparing both units in the stock form, I would tend to agree with that assessment. I obviously choose the ECD-1.

But that's what is great about this hobby...lots of choices and none are wrong if you like it.

George

Carlman · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 03:45 pm »

Thanks for the comments so far.. It's stretching my budget beyond the max to even consider another DAC at this point. I was going to sell my mod'd Pioneer 656 and Museatex DAC to help afford the change to the APL 563. So, keeping the transport and buying something twice the price really is a killer. The 1850 for the Birdland is 'MSRP' and not what I'd pay... it'd be closer to 1500 and I'm trying to get a demo of it now. Apparently, shipments have been slow.

I'm still very excited about the 563 and if it gets the sound I'm looking for, I'm done. My current rig is close to what I want but not quite. It does accuracy right but misses by having a digital sound to it and not conveying emotion particularly well. (to me) I was told the new Birdland did this and did it in spades.

So, if you've heard it, and compared it to others like the Naim or Pioneer, then let me know if it hits the mark on accuracy, emotion, and/or smooth/analog-type sound.

-C

BikeWNC · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 04:01 pm »

Carl,

It would be interesting to compare the Birdland to the Bel Canto Dac2. Let me know when you might get the demo unit and maybe we can work something out. The BC is hard to beat at its price point, especially used, and I wonder how it compares to some of the one box solutions that are out there. I'll find out around the first of May when my 2900 comes back from Modwright.

Andy

Carlman · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 04:11 pm »

Quote from: Tsunami

Carl,

It would be interesting to compare the Birdland to the Bel Canto Dac2. Let me know when you might get the demo unit and maybe we can work something out. The BC is hard to beat at its price point, especially used, and I wonder how it compares to some of the one box solutions that are out there. I'll find out around the first of May when my 2900 comes back from Modwright.

Andy

Since Shane (Hometheaterdoc) is a local dealer for BC, I may be able to do the demo at his place, on a much more sophisticated or revealing system (than my little setup). At this point the guy I called had none in stock... and didn't expect any for 2 more weeks.

If I get the Birdland demo, we'll work it out for a demo at your place.

-C

Roy Johnson · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Apr 2004, 03:00 pm »

The original Birdland Odeon Lite was indeed light in the bass.
The later version of that unit and the current AG model do not have that trait.

Much equipment that is "too laid back" in some systems, is actually more dynamically graceful when auditoned over a wide variety of systems/better systems.

As you know, the hardest sounds to reproduce are the subtle changes, and the most dramatic changes- the dynamic extremes.
If a component, a cable, a speaker cannot resolve the small changes, but has low distortion otherwise, then the result is an "on/off" sort of presentation, sometimes requiring we play the system louder.
If there is low-level noise or distortion overlaying that abrupt start and end, that would add a haze overlaying that chopped signal- two distinct events if the speakers are good enough to resolve that the upstream component/cable is doing that.

If a component, cable, speaker cannot resolve the largest dynamic changes, it may flatten them off in certain ways:
A cable does it, no matter what the loudness (voltage) sent into it.
A preamplifier would soften gradually as the gain was advanced.
A power amp would more suddenly "lose it" with one more increase in volume (assuming you did not hear it leave its Class A operation mode).
A speaker flattens off the peaks, similar to a tape deck or preamplifier- gradually getting worse with increases in loudness, then just losing it, like a power amplifier.

The outcome of course is many pieces of music that are boring when heard with one or more of those distortion characteristics.

The Birdland is extraordinarily musical, not laid back. It exhibits none of the traits I listed above, nor have we found a piece of music that will trip it up- to make it lose focus, add grain, stilt the dynamics, harden up. It is one of the very few processors with the resolution (including all the way through its volume control and output stage) to resolve the encoding-process "hiss" around each note, resolved to the point you can hear that as noise and the original signal apart from that. Analog tape does this too- adding a sideband modulation noise. Direct disc vinyl does not.

No matter, the Birdland may not be the best for a given system. But that would be because of something else in the system, imo. The next weakest link, in my experience, is often the first pair of interconnects.

The Birdland does respond to Black Diamond cones. I think Anthony Perrotta Consulting is a dealer (disclaimer- he is a GMA dealer). Takes about 3weeks on repeat to totally burn in- using complicated music like Squirrel Nut Zippers. Takes 3 days to fully warm up.

Gilles at Birdland told me once, that in his experience, much of the sonic difference in CD transports is from the different ways they implement (and how much/how often) their error correction- done before the signal is ever sent out to the DAC.

I too have heard great things about the Bel Canto. Good guys too. I am posting our current reference system below, so that may tell you more about why we dig music through the Birdland. I am sure we would enjoy the Bel Canto. Anyone have experience with the Electrocompaniet? Or the Audio Note (which Audio Note firm?).

Best regards,
Roy Johnson
Green Mountain Audio

System:
400sq ft room, treated
SolidSteel rack

CEC transport via Illuminati to Birdland (and other DACs)
or
various open reel machines with 1/2-track original master tapes of orchestral and other music, and 1/2 track and 1/4 track factory pre-recorded tapes
or
Rowland vdH strain gauge system on Micro Seiki BL-91/MA505II/Platter Matter

via one set of Audio Magic Illusion 4d interconnects to Edge M-10 amp
Audio Magic Sorcerer speaker wires
Green Mountain speakers

Note, no preamp is required with the Birdland or the reel, nor the extra interconnects.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Apr 2004, 04:43 am »

Quote from: zybar

Also, when I brought the dac to the NY Audio Rave meeting in February, everybody was quite impressed by it.

Obviously there are no absolutes and what I like or say is just my two cents. I do feel that the ECD-1 should be on anybody's list who is looking for a dac under $3K.

As always YMMV.

George

Hello George ,The ECD-1 did sound good at Daniel's, so I placed my order for the ECD-1 today...will match it up with the Sony 7700 (still have to get the mods), and we'll see how it sounds in my system. I still also have an interest in the APL modded Pioneer , as a stand alone CDP. Time will tell.

Rocket · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Apr 2004, 09:36 am »

Hi Carl,

I have the perpetual technologies p1a/p3a modwright level 1 and it is a very good sounding dac.

They can be bought off audiogon for very reasonable prices. Try to buy one already modified.

You could also wait a couple of months and the aksadac should be ready for sale by then.

Btw i think you've got the hifi addiction be careful it is a disease

.
Anyway good luck.

regards

rod