Comparison of EE DAC to MHDT Havana

Alexdad54 · « **on:** 31 Mar 2011, 12:21 pm »

I'm quite happy with my MHDT Havana (just equipped with a Bendix Red Bank 6385) BUT it's inability to play higher resolution files has me looking hard at trying out an EE Minimax DAC. I found a few remarks in various threads but no real info on any comparisons between the the two DACs and I was wondering if anyone who has had a chance to compare them directly could comment. I'm currently listening via a small EEE 701 4G mini-PC>Alix board which has trumped my earlier W7 netbook setup with its transparency and detail (a deep bow here to Nick L.

who spent a few hours with me making sure I had it correctly configured).
cheers,
Dave

Levi · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 01:00 pm »

Rob (rpf) has a modified Havana and compared it with a stock EE DAC. He loves his Havana DAC. You may want to send him a PM because the modified Havana sounded truly good! EE DAC sounds excellent to me depending on the system and your listening taste.

Dave G · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 01:50 pm »

Sorry if you've already read these, but I find John Darko's reviews at Digital Audio Rreview to be really helpful. He recently reviewed both of these DACs and liked them both.

Dave

satfrat · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 02:10 pm »

Yep, like Levi stated, Dac's can be system specific and the only real way you'll know which Dac you prefer will be to demo both in your system Dave. I did just this comparison between these 2 Dacs and for me & my system, I preferred the Havana even tho I really liked the EE Dac also. My system was already so dynamic that the EE Dac's strong deep soundstage overpowered my system,,, just too much of a good thing while the Havana really complements what I already have. But in another system, the EE Dac simply blew alway all other Dacs that it had been compared to and not by a small margin either. So in reality, there is no 1 answer fits all solutions to your question. I man's answer might not be yours Dave, that's the hard reality of it.

Cheers,
Robin

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 02:17 pm »

Thanks Dave & Levi& Robin,
I have read John Darko's reviews (and just did again) but I'm not sure what he means with these comments:
"It doesn't have the depth of soundstage of the MHDT Labs Paradisea and Havana, but the MiniMax more than makes up for it with sheer enthusiasm. The MiniMax doesn't sound as "tubey" as the MHDT Labs gear. In fact, it doesn't sound "tubey" at all." & "Those that prefer a more romantic interpretation (and NOS tragics) should consider the MHDT Labs Havana - if a side order of tubes is essential"...what is a "NOS tragic"?....
I also note that John prefers the Audio-GD NFB-2 DAC above all but I like the idea of the tube option in the EE Minimax DAC.

My Havana was slightly modded to tighten up the bass but I find that some types of "denser" music, such as rock, still sound a bit congested.
Just to clarify a bit more, the DAC feeds a Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A SE (with nos RCA 12SX7's) and a Butler 2250 hybrid amp with Grover H cabling coupled with a brand new Veloce Black Cat spdif cable though an Audio-GD DI USB/SPDIF interface. Speakers are Salk SongTower RT's.
I just read your reply Robin, maybe I'll give it a try because I wouldn't call the above system overly dynamic. As you said, one man's meat is anothers...err..whatever....

Levi · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 02:22 pm »

You are welcome.

Robin has a good point. To each his own. Hopefully you can A/B between the two DACs in your system.

satfrat · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: Alexdad54 on 31 Mar 2011, 02:17 pm

Thanks Dave & Levi& Robin,
I have read John Darko's reviews (and just did again) but I'm not sure what he means with these comments:
"It doesn't have the depth of soundstage of the MHDT Labs Paradisea and Havana, but the MiniMax more than makes up for it with sheer enthusiasm. The MiniMax doesn't sound as "tubey" as the MHDT Labs gear. In fact, it doesn't sound "tubey" at all." & "Those that prefer a more romantic interpretation (and NOS tragics) should consider the MHDT Labs Havana - if a side order of tubes is essential"...what is a "NOS tragic"?....
I also note that John prefers the Audio-GD NFB-2 DAC above all but I like the idea of the tube option in the EE Minimax DAC.

My Havana was slightly modded to tighten up the bass but I find that some types of "denser" music, such as rock, still sound a bit congested.
Just to clarify a bit more, the DAC feeds a Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A SE (with nos RCA 12SX7's) and a Butler 2250 hybrid amp with Grover H cabling coupled with a brand new Veloce Black Cat spdif cable though an Audio-GD DI USB/SPDIF interface. Speakers are Salk SongTower RT's.
I just read your reply Robin, maybe I'll give it a try because I wouldn't call the above system overly dynamic. As you said, one man's meat is anothers...err..whatever....

John Darko can only write about what he's hearing in my system. Fact is in my friend's Salk HT-3 system, the exact opposite was true as far as soundstage depth. In his system, the EE Dac's 3D soundstage depth was far superior to any other Dac tried, including the TDAC, AVA Insight+, and my Havana Dac. But in my system tho, not so much.

Cheers,
Robin

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 02:27 pm »

Thanks guys,
I think I will give it a try as I just happened to have found some cash from an insurance refund in my bedside drawer that somehow got overlooked.....

.
It could be fun being as it will also actually be my first A/B in the revised system......

Dave G · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 05:02 pm »

Quote from: Alexdad54 on 31 Mar 2011, 02:17 pm

Thanks Dave & Levi& Robin,
I have read John Darko's reviews (and just did again) but I'm not sure what he means with these comments:
"It doesn't have the depth of soundstage of the MHDT Labs Paradisea and Havana, but the MiniMax more than makes up for it with sheer enthusiasm. The MiniMax doesn't sound as "tubey" as the MHDT Labs gear. In fact, it doesn't sound "tubey" at all." & "Those that prefer a more romantic interpretation (and NOS tragics) should consider the MHDT Labs Havana - if a side order of tubes is essential"...what is a "NOS tragic"?...."

Dave,

I actually e-mailed John about the soundstage comment because at another place in the EE DAC review he says it has a "truly e x p a n s i v e" soundstage. He confirmed what I thought, which is that he thinks the Havana's soundstage is deeper, while the EE's is wider. The other stuff you quoted? I think "NOS tragic" refers to the way non-oversampling DACs are perceived by some as having a more romantic and emotional sound than other DACs do. I think he uses the word tragic in the romantic sense.

FWIW, I just bought an EE DAC to replace a Mhdt Paradisea DAC. I've only had it a week and haven't tried to do even the most informal comparisons of the two DACs. But I can say that the EE DAC's soundstage is both wide AND deep. I don't regret the purchase.

Hope that helps.

Dave

raddar · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 06:28 pm »

I had the MHDT Havana Dac for a few months and sold it. It did not sound much better that the analog output of my Rega Apollo. I purchased the EE DAC back in Jan of this year and I love it. In my system, it is far superior to the Havana and the analog output of the Apollo. It is truly one of those products that exceeded my expectations in sound and build quality. I will keep the EE DAC for a long time. YMMV

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 06:46 pm »

Thank you all very much for your input, it has really helped me to assess things and then take the plunge after much vaccillating...

I'll give them both a close listen after burning in and come back here with my impression, especially as I also have a new Rega Apollo to compare it to as well......
BTW, any consensus on tube options for he EE. The threads I've read seem to point towards the Pavane(Psvane?) AU7 or a NOS Mullard CV4003

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 08:03 pm »

Thanks for the info RTobin. Upscale audio actually has the Mullard (platinum version) cryo'ed for only $58 vs. a pair of Pavanes for $83...better to wait though , as you said, to try out the stock tube in my system first.
cheers,
Dave

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: Alexdad54 on 31 Mar 2011, 08:03 pm

Thanks for the info RTobin. Upscale audio actually has the Mullard (platinum version) cryo'ed for only $58 vs. a pair of Pavanes for $83...better to wait though , as you said, to try out the stock tube in my system first.
cheers,
Dave

Dave,
There are few different Mullard 12au7's. You really want to look for the Mullard longplate with double crossbar D/Square shaped getter wire. The other Mullards are nice but this is the standout performer. they are expensive but worth every penny IMHO, of course YMMV but in my system depending on the mood either the Siemens silverplate for clean accuracy and if your using tubes already, I'd never recommend the silverplate with SS. For lush beautiful midrange the Mullard longplate is the ticket.
BTW. Your DAC left with UPS today

Thank you.

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 10:13 pm »

Thanks Bill, good news!
And thanks for the extra info, stopped me making an expensive rookie mistake! I'm finding there's a lot of variation in the descriptions of the Mullard type you recommended. Would this fit the bill? It's from a well-known tube dealer's site :

"12AU7 Mullard longplates, square getter, 1950s vintage, Great Britain. VERY RARE.
New Old Stock White Box and original box. Some shield logo types, some are the old white label pre- shield logo version. These are all the older long narrow plate version, with the rare early SQUARE top getter, with the 1950s date code. These are incredible tubes with a fine soundstage, clean top end with a touch of midrange warmth. Rare. Good stock now but fast vanishing!!"

Lucky thing i have some tubes I can trade or sell, including a never-opened Bendix Red Bank 6385...this is an expensive pastime

Levi · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 11:14 pm »

That was quick! Congrats!

p.s. I am currently using a Mullard CV4003 from upscale audio.

rpf · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 11:36 pm »

Okay, just saw this thread. Here is what I wrote last year about the differences between my modified (input and output caps and fuse) Havana and Levi's EE: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72820.msg759056#msg759056

Since then I've gone to a Mac Mini source > DB Labs Essential USB cable > ART Legato USB/SPDIF converter > KCI Pegasus Digital (BNC to BNC) cable > Havana. This has resulted in both greater resolution and greater soundstage depth. Levi has now modded his EE DAC and is returning for another comparison in a couple of weeks. Will post my further impressions then.

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 12:09 am »

Thanks, I actually had been mulling this over for a few weeks already but the info today pushed me over the edge!

My Havana has had some light mods done, the caps, a HiFi Tuning fuse and Herbies Tenderfeet. I'm planning on putting a similar fuse into the EE. I'll also be running the IsoTek CD f over the system to help with the burnin, have to do it at night though as the SO doesn't care for the odd sounds emanating from the basement during the day....

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 12:56 am »

You know you don't have to turn the amplifiers on.

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 01:10 am »

Umm, no I didn't...

I had read that to properly run in the whole system (source, IC's, speakers, tubed pre, etc.) one had to run the CD at listening volume, so I just assumed the DAC would need the same.... so if for the DAC only. I just have to feed it a signal without the pre or amp involved??

NeilT · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 02:38 am »

Quote from: Bill O'Connell on 1 Apr 2011, 12:56 am

You know you don't have to turn the amplifiers on.

Awesome and thanks Bill.
look'n forward to get'n mine tomorrow.

Neil