Integrateds Are Nice, but I need Opinions

Mass. Wine Guy · « **on:** 30 Mar 2011, 02:53 pm »

I have an Arte Forma I-150 integrated amp. Really nice, no issues and I'm selling it.

Ideally I'd like something like a Van Alstine integrated, and there is a Musical Fidelity A 3.5 on Audiogon that garners some good reviews. Also a Plinius 8100 and a Wyred 4 Sound STI-500, the last being way over my current budget.

Also on Audiogon is a pair of Channel Island D100 mono blocks. I previously ran separates and, with some rearranging of my space, do so again. I've heard tons of great things about Channel Island.

Opinions/suggestions please?

Thanks very much.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 03:01 pm »

What is it about the Arte Forma isn't working for you and what do you hope to gain with something else? Without some clear goals you could end up just making a lateral move or even worse, coming away with amp that doesn't sound as good as the Arte Forma.

morganc · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 03:05 pm »

And it would be helpful to know what speakers you use and your music preferences. All of this will factor into a good decision.

eclein · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 03:23 pm »

Mass Wine Guy- Please don't take this the wrong way OK, I'm writing this as one audio nut to another-OK...
Have you really given any of this equipment you've been buying lately a chance to really settle in, and I mean like when you get this stuff are sitting down to enjoy the music or are you sitting down just to find faults with what you have? Since you began posting I've wondered along the way "why is he getting rid of that piece", "but does he (you) know that those are considered very good"....its really, really easy to get caught up in the equipment and forget the music....change the amp, change the speakers, change the amp, change the speakers...Arte Forma is good stuff as was a previous amp you had....just make sure your really in need of the change and not in need of "just making a change"...

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 03:37 pm »

Quote from: eclein on 30 Mar 2011, 03:23 pm

...its really, really easy to get caught up in the equipment and forget the music....

Words to live by.

D.D.

Mass. Wine Guy · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 03:48 pm »

Very good and wise advice. I suppose I can get caught up in the technical points or other non-music issues. I could just give it six months and reevaluate. And in that time maybe listen to some other gear.

I listen to every kind of music except Hip Hop, Rap and the like. Rock and Roll, Jazz instrumentals and vocals, orchestral and chamber music, lots and lots of acoustic folk/blues/traditional. Patti Smith, The Band, Hendrix, Woody Mann, Ry Cooder, The Rolling Stones, Glenn Gould, Latvian Womens' Choir, The Dead, and onward.

My speakers are the Quad 12L2.

saisunil · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 04:00 pm »

You may consider working on placement / room treatment ... it has significant positive effect and costs nothing to reasonable and would go along with whatever equipment you have ...

Cheers

roscoeiii · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 04:04 pm »

And Wine Guy,

In addition to the genres you listen to, what are the sonic characteristics of this music that you are drawn to? The drive, the timbre of instruments, soundstage, bass, treble, mids, dynamics, etc.?

bacobits1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 04:08 pm »

That Art Forma is supposed to be a real nice Integrated.
I wouldn't mind having it although I have not heard it. "Rocket Ronny" here on the boards is pretty fussy and he loved it. Actually, Ronny is in the music publishing industry. Maybe he will have some comments here. 6 Mooners like it too. You see, sometimes reinforcement, encouragement from others helps change your mind.

I don''t change anything here on a new purchase unless I have made a big mistake and can't straighten it out. Sometimes it's just synergy and you have to change something else in the setup. This did happen with my Pathos. This will always cost something unless you can break even on a re-sale. Not impossible.

I used to start by flipping wires and tubes if present.

What are your criticisms of the Art Forma?

Oh. I like the simplicity of Integratedes now, I don't think I would go back to the complication of separates again.

D

eclein · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 03:48 pm

I suppose I can get caught up in the technical points or other non-music issues. I could just give it six months and reevaluate.

Great idea, and its cheaper.
When you've had a crappy day and get home and find you have the house to yourself what is the first album, type of music you want to hear immediately??

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 04:46 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 03:48 pm

Very good and wise advice. I suppose I can get caught up in the technical points or other non-music issues. I could just give it six months and reevaluate. And in that time maybe listen to some other gear.

I listen to every kind of music except Hip Hop, Rap and the like. Rock and Roll, Jazz instrumentals and vocals, orchestral and chamber music, lots and lots of acoustic folk/blues/traditional. Patti Smith, The Band, Hendrix, Woody Mann, Ry Cooder, The Rolling Stones, Glenn Gould, Latvian Womens' Choir, The Dead, and onward.

My speakers are the Quad 12L2.

I guess the big question is "what do you feel is missing"? This hobby will mess with your head and wallet!! If you can, try to make it to the Rocky Mountian Audio Fest. You can see and hear all the best this industry has to offer. It's the best show IMHO. I was looking to upgrade my amps, but after going to 3 RMAF's I realized I would have to spend $25k on amps to better my sound (to a level where I went WOW!! That's so much better than what I have right now). I'm sure I could get a little bit better sound for less, but it's not worth the investment. I never considered myself an audiophile, I just love music! My Father built a Dynaco tube amp & Preamp and had AR speakers when I was 8 years old. I've had most of my equipment now for at least 8 years. It's my sound, what I like. Good Luck on your quest.

Gary

Mass. Wine Guy · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 30 Mar 2011, 04:04 pm

And Wine Guy,

In addition to the genres you listen to, what are the sonic characteristics of this music that you are drawn to? The drive, the timbre of instruments, soundstage, bass, treble, mids, dynamics, etc.?

Wow. I'm sure I can't answer all those questions. I just have not listened to music through enough good gear. Basically, I want music to sound natural and instruments to sound like true representations of what they are. My Quads, for example, seem to be very good at reproducing piano. I'd say I prefer no coloration, but maybe I'd like the slightest bit of warmth.

For room treatments, what are the least expensive and least involved options?

Mike Nomad · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 03:48 pm

Very good and wise advice. I suppose I can get caught up in the technical points or other non-music issues. I could just give it six months and reevaluate. And in that time maybe listen to some other gear.

I listen to every kind of music except Hip Hop, Rap and the like. Rock and Roll, Jazz instrumentals and vocals, orchestral and chamber music, lots and lots of acoustic folk/blues/traditional. Patti Smith, The Band, Hendrix, Woody Mann, Ry Cooder, The Rolling Stones, Glenn Gould, Latvian Womens' Choir, The Dead, and onward.

My speakers are the Quad 12L2.

A couple of questions I have: What sources are you listening to (LP, CD, DVD, etc.), and what source components are you using? Which leads to... What are are you using for speaker cable & interconnects?

Mass. Wine Guy · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 07:48 pm »

Quote from: Mike Nomad on 30 Mar 2011, 07:34 pm

A couple of questions I have: What sources are you listening to (LP, CD, DVD, etc.), and what source components are you using? Which leads to... What are are you using for speaker cable & interconnects?

My source is an Arcam CD-72 player feeding a Van Alstine Omega Star DAC. No other sources.

Speaker cables are Audio Art SC-5 biwire, 8 feet

Audio Art C-1 Mk II RCA interconnects, one pair

DH Labs D-75 Digital Cable

Everything is running through a PS Audio Duet. I should add, though, that I don't have proper speaker stands.

Danberg · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:06 pm »

I did lots of chasing for the "sound" I wanted and came to this conclusion after spending way to much time & money changing out equipment, cables, tweaks, etc. "It's the room not the equipment.

per Rob Babcock, AC member to one of my posts regarding "room treatment."
"It's amazing, isn't it? So many guys spend years 'chasing the dragon', blowing thousands of dollars on ICs, cables and other tweaks, and trying speaker after speaker, amp after amp...all without addressing the most important part of the playback system: the room itself! I'd much rather have a $2,500 audio system in a well treated room than a $25,000 rig in a very live, untreated room."

If you are handy, click on the link below.
This was a nice DIY project thread by PeteG.... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=17771.msg155457#msg155457

werd · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 07:48 pm

My source is an Arcam CD-72 player feeding a Van Alstine Omega Star DAC. No other sources.

Speaker cables are Audio Art SC-5 biwire, 8 feet

Audio Art C-1 Mk II RCA interconnects, one pair

DH Labs D-75 Digital Cable

Everything is running through a PS Audio Duet. I should add, though, that I don't have proper speaker stands.

Hi

Why don't you move away from cd and start looking at playing files into your dac? Might need an adaptor to interface the dac but you can play files right off your computer or laptop. It will improve your transport imo and cd transports can be brutal and make the rest of your gear suffer. It may be pretty easy for you at this point if your dac has a usb in but there are plenty of options if it doesnt. I would look at that transport first before any integrateds.

Mass. Wine Guy · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:12 pm »

Thanks Werd and Danberg. I'm not very handy, so what room treatment options do I have on the cheap?

I don't have my music on my computer, so I'd like to stick with a CD player. Should I try getting a different player with a better transport? I thought the Arcam was thought to be pretty decent.

saisunil · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:24 pm »

I think your source Arcam 72 needs an upgrade ...
I have gone through Arcam 73, and 192 and later moved to other players before finally settling on TRL modded players ...

There are plenty of choices depending on budget - used, modded, computer as source - at the very least it can be dizzying

Otherwise as someone suggested - you may have to spend a lot more money to hear next level of change ...

Other than that working on your room is a no brainer ... you WILL hear the difference ... Bryan is very good and helpful at GIK
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

Bass traps in the corner and traps at first reflection point - would give you the biuggest bang for the buck ... see if someone is selling used one - I sold mine at loss due to w.a.f. There is a acoustic forum here as well

werd · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:28 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 08:12 pm

Thanks Werd and Danberg. I'm not very handy, so what room treatment options do I have on the cheap?

I don't have my music on my computer, so I'd like to stick with a CD player. Should I try getting a different player with a better transport? I thought the Arcam was thought to be pretty decent.

Hi

Well with the kind of efforts you are making on the integrateds i would poke around and look at different transports. There are a lot of good udp players you can buy that work great for a cd transport. Pioneer and marantz in udp are nice and they are cheap since people consider them to be outdated but work great with good ole cd's. But i would still recommend looking at playing files.

eclein · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 08:37 pm »

Quote from: Mass. Wine Guy on 30 Mar 2011, 08:12 pm

Thanks Werd and Danberg. I'm not very handy, so what room treatment options do I have on the cheap?

I don't have my music on my computer, so I'd like to stick with a CD player. Should I try getting a different player with a better transport? I thought the Arcam was thought to be pretty decent.

See how easy it is in just a few hours, changing your mind, remember a few hours ago when you wrote: "Very good and wise advice. I suppose I can get caught up in the technical points or other non-music issues. I could just give it six months and reevaluate".