[kentj1948]

AudioFest Midwest Update

I thought I would start a new thread to discuss a few things regarding AM.

First, I want to thank Brian Kircher for adding another possible exhibitor to our list.

Second, thanks for Chris Hoff for taking the time to respond to last week’s email.  I want to use Chris’ remarks as a hopping off point, so here they are:

"Kent/Bob:
Sounds like too much $$$$ for a one day show—Saturday (Friday is set-up and Sunday is tear down). RMAF gives 100 times the exposure and 2.5 days of show for $2300. $750-$900 sounds right."

I don’t think that we can come anywhere near the sort of price Chris suggests using a hotel that actually meets our needs for the show.

More importantly, we have no idea how many people we can draw to the show from the St. Louis metropolitan area.  This is what concerns me the most.  Even if the price to an exhibitor is very low, he isn’t going to be happy if only a dozen people come through his room.

I believe that, for the show to be successful, we need to have enough people attend from within the metropolitan area itself to justify doing it.  While we may attract listeners from farther away, the show can’t depend on their numbers to succeed. 

Here is my suggestion for dealing with these issues:

I went down to St. Louis Community College at Forest Park this morning to talk to them about using their facilities for an initial show. 

This school has a lot going for it that would work well for us. In no particular order:

They have a lot of rooms big enough for our needs as well as other facilities we might be able to use.  The rooms may also be better sound-proofed than a hotel.

They are easy to find.

They have lots of free parking.

We can still try the family weekend idea since the Zoo and Science Center are close by.

There is a Marriott hotel across the street for out of town exhibitors and guests.

There are three places to eat within walking distance.  We can also work with the vendor who runs the school’s cafeteria to supply box lunches or similar.  Other food and shopping is a short ride away.

The cafeteria is very large. It could be used as a place to go talk and get something to eat away from the show.  I think it could also serve as a place to have live music.  Maybe we can have some difference sorts of acoustic music performances there during Saturday afternoon.  (Students from the school?)  Vendors could also be located in the cafeteria.

There are classrooms for holding seminars.

We can time our use of the facilities for one of the school’s semester breaks.

We may be able to attract some of the college students going there.  Depending upon the time we do this, the other area colleges might also be in session. 

The college’s electrical capabilities should be good and it has elevators as well.  Loading areas can be checked out when we know which building(s) might be used.

Here are the unknowns:

Prices.  It appears that GAS’ non-profit status is working for us here.  I am waiting to hear back from their facilities person for more information.

Actual availability of the buildings and possible dates to consider for the show.

Acoustics.

 I hope to talk with the person who handles renting space for the school in the next day or so and see her later this week.  I will post when this is happening as soon as I hear.  I would really like some other people to come with and check things out.

I am suggesting that we consider using the school for a first show to keep the costs down and, more importantly, to see how many people show up.  If the numbers are good, then we have something to use to attract additional exhibitors.  If the numbers are really poor, we don’t take a financial bath and can rethink the whole idea. 
 
My feeling is that if we can’t attract around 250-300 visitors from the entire St. Louis metro area, we can’t realistically put on a show.  It just wouldn’t be worth the trouble. 

(I know that I am being very pessimistic.  I can’t help it. It is based upon things like never being able to buy or sell any audio equipment here in St. Louis.  I try the market here and then have to go to Audiogon or eBay.  Likewise, we have The Sound Room cutting back to one store, Ultimate Electronics is out of business, the Borders stores out west are closing, etc.  St. Louis may be central but it may simply not have the interest in home audio needed for a show to work.) 

To end on a more positive note, I think there is time to do a show this summer or fall using SLCC and answer these questions fairly quickly.

I don’t see any change in venue as affecting what we have already done.  We will still want to approach all the possible exhibitors on the list that was emailed last week.  If you did not get this list, contact me and I will send it along.

Let me know if you think this is an idea worth considering.

Kentj
3-28-11
636-399-8053   

 


 

 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Kent, thank you for starting the first "next" thread regarding the STLFest.

I've been able to get a couple manufactures "on board" as well. Not sure when it's appropriate to start the name dropping, but now doesn't seem like the right time. 

A rebuttle to Chris: (with absolute and all due respect)
I'm personally not sure that we need to have a fixed number of commiteed attendees that are local, but I say that based on my never having been to a large "fest", nor having ever been a manufacturer. So take that with a grain of salt. I'm just worried that saying 250-300 visitors from STL or it's not worth it, is the make-or-break benchmark for the show. I don't think there are that many audiophiles in STL to begin with. Besides, our target audience/customer isn't going to be the Ultimate Electronic/Borders customer anyway. Those folks are happy with a $30 boombox from Walmart. Telling them a pair of speakers is more than their car.....well.....

Am I wrong in saying that, and am I wrong for saying that here?
Please forgive/excuse as I'm the noob here.

I received a couple short emails as a result of the mass mailing I sent out a few days ago.
Here they are, unedited, copy and pasted, anonomously: (Except for the one from Chris that's been posted above)

=======
What about SVS I believe over in Ohio.  Since we are thinking of reaching the coast is Conrad Johnson a possibility?
=======
Vandersteen?   Musical Concepts?
=======

Bob

EDIT: Should I make this a sticky thread?

[BPoletti]

There is a rather small number of audiophiles in STL and the metro area, relatively speaking.  In order for a "fest" to be successful, the draw must be from a larger area that likely includes Chicago, Memphis, Indy and K.C.  There are a few manufacturers and dealers in the immediate area that would probably participate under the right conditions.  To get a larger draw, the "fest" would need to draw manufacturers and large dealers from the area noted above as well as having names like ARC, Wilson, Rowland, Nola / Alon (whichever way it's spelled), VPI, Herron (should be a slam dunk) and similar.  Get the name appeal.  Use the same model as Rocky Mountain.

Maybe let it be known that there would be a couple of monster home theater set-ups (@ with 50 - 100 seats) that the public could "audition" during the show.  That will pull in more locals and maybe generate more interest in high-end audio as they walk around the various rooms.

Then, as the big finale, get the SLSO to endorse the show by enticing them with nice system discounts so that they can upgrade from their current set-ups.  Get manufacturer participation in return for some advertising and marketing benefits. 

It could happen, but there are a lot of dominoes that need to be put on the board and set in motion. 

Has anyone spoken with the Riverfront Times to see if they might have some ideas, whether they might be interested in helping promote such a show?  The RFT is now part of a larger organization with affiliated publications of a similar nature all over the country.

[kentj1948]

I wanted to reply to some of the remarks that have come in.  Thanks for sending them on.  We need an open discussion.

I think that RMAF and AKFEST succeeded because there were enough local people interested in doing a show to get them started.  My concern is that having to draw people from the surrounding area to make the show possible is a bad idea.  People won't drive for a day unless you have the big name manufacturers showing up and they won't show without knowing how many people are going to be there.  The costs of using a hotel make the the whole situation more of a gamble than we perhaps need to take.

My suggestion is do an initial show that tells us what we can count on in Metro St. Louis.  Then we have some data to work with.  The Rocky Mountain "model" was made possible by guaranteeing the Marriott a quarter million dollars up front to reserve the rooms.  Then the CAS worked to sell them.  If someone is willing to do that, our problems are solved.

While I appreciate suggestions for our exhibitors list, it would be really helpful to send along the actual name of the company, web site, phone, contact person, and so on so that I can add it to the list.  I have no idea what SVS is. 

If you haven't gotten the possible exhibitors list, make sure that Bob has your email.  I will send out an updated list in the next day or so.   

I plan on checking out the Doubletree in Collinsville this week.

Here is the letter I received from Art Tedeschi of the Colorado Audio Society.  I think it will be helpful.

Kentj 3-29-11


Hi Kent,

 

You seem to be starting off in the same place that our group had 7 years ago as we began thinking about hosting an audio show.  Here is what made our show happen:

 

Facility:  Two of our members took the reins to look into the feasibility of holding this show.  Al Stiefel, a retired and well-to-do businessman checked into a venue for the show.  This was not a simple feat:  they had to find a hotel that would consider removing furniture from their rooms to accommodate the exhibitor displays.  The venue had to be a large hotel that was able to host large meetings and conventions, and also had to have a weekend (Fri-Sun) available for the show dates.  Luckily, Al was able to take the risk of guaranteeing the date once it was booked by promising to pay if the show didn’t come off (many thousands of bucks).  Naturally, Al took official ownership of the show and built a corporation around it.

 

Exhibitors:  I was able to talk a friend, Jeff Rowland, into committing to the show, and this was enough to encourage other manufacturers to commit.  Local dealers were arm-twisted into exhibiting and many calls were made to hundreds of manufacturers.  Obviously, for these vendors to agree, the cost of exhibiting had to be attractive and they had to be confident that the show would be a reality (and potentially profitable).  Al was a strong businessman and was able to talk many reticent vendors into attending.

 

Logistics:  Ron had assisted with several smaller shows in the past and understood many of the hidden tasks that had to be performed in order to implement this very large project (equipment shipping, etc).

 

Al and his wife Marjorie (the current director – Al passed away 2 years ago) worked constantly on the show for several months working out the details – it is a necessity that you have “point” members willing to put in the time to run the show and communicate with all involved as necessary.

 

A website had to be created and online ticketing/ecommerce systems had to be built.

 

Publicity and promotion had to be handled.  Once the show had a bit of momentum behind it, we convinced some of the magazines (online and paper) to cover the show.  The bigger guys (TAS writers, etc) wanted free rooms at the hotel (some of the more high-profile folks want even more).

 

These are just a few of the larger items to consider before taking on this project, even for a smaller show.  The members must be solidly behind the concept, willing to act as volunteers to handle most all of the manpower activities during the show (hang signs, work registration desk, etc).  We currently have over 100 members, but only 30-40 actually volunteer, but many of the volunteers are family and friends of the members – they all find it fun to contribute (and to enjoy the show for free by working a shift or two).

 

I wish you success in your goal – obviously, the more shows that promote high-end products to the public  the more our hobby and this industry will benefit, which is good for all of us.  If you do it right, the show’s owner can profit, even in the first year.

 

If you have specific questions as you move forward, don’t hesitate to ask.

 

Best,

 

Art

 

 
 

[Bob in St. Louis]

For some reason, Ryan ("Turbo") is unable to make a post here.
In an attempt to copy and paste what he wrote, I get the same error message. 

Everybody on the GAS email list has the forwarded email in their inbox.

That's bizarre.
Bob

[TONEPUB]

The real problem you guys face is the fact that the industry can only support going to so many shows.  RMAF continues to be a great success, but with so many shows on the calendar now, you can only expect mfrs. to concentrate on a few.  It pretty much costs a major mfr 10-20k if not more to go to RMAF, and it will cost the same to go to the midwest.  Then the European companies have even more to deal with.  Travel, hotels and shipping all that heavy gear gets expensive, not to mention the risk of getting dreadfully ill and losing work when you get back.

Last but not least, the magazines are only going to cover so many events, because that costs money too.  I now spend 20-30k going to the various shows and we don't even do show reports.  At a certain point, to any of us, how much more interesting is it from an editorial standpoint to write about a bunch of guys in a room with the same racks of gear that were just at CES, RMAF, Montreal and Munich?

Not trying to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, but on a lot of levels, it's more cost effective for any of you to go to RMAF than it is for everyone to go to the midwest for yet another show that isn't really offering anything different.

One of the main reasons RMAF is so successful is because a lot of people on the consumer side see it as a vacation destination and once half of the people that go to RMAF go to the midwest instead....

What would be great is to see a new show that truly offers something different than just rooms full of gear.  Don't know what that is, but I'm sure someone will come up with something.

[electricbear]

I think that everyone has made some valid points. I liked the idea of hosting at a school or college. That would definitely keep the costs down during the first couple of start up years. Once momentum and attendance has built up it would be easy to then switch to a hotel as we will already have a proven track record.
Why doesn't someone call the vendors we've previously discussed and ask them if they would be interested in attending and what time of year would be best for them. We could also ask them what are the criteria they look for in making show attendance decisions. No point in talking about different vendors if they won't come.

[Steve]

A couple of points if I may.

1)  What manufacturers do we have wanting to exhibit as of now? Individuals as well?   

2) I recommended the St. Louis area because of the surrounding cities of good size in all directions. 

3) The fact that the midwest does not have a show at all means we all have to travel extended distances, with exhibitors paying huge fees. Of course this cost needs to be recouped.

Exhibiting costs can be kept down, as mentioned in the other string, such as Lonestar Audiofest's $99.00 price per room. AKfest charges $1000.00 to exhibit, both much less expensive than the big boys.

This means a more level playing field, allowing the smaller manufacturers to exhibit their often times superior sounding products to more of the public.

The idea of using a college, or the Lonestar model sounds reasonable to me, at least for the first year.

Cheers.

 

[wedweb]

There are alot of commercial buildings over here in Collinsville that have multiple offices for lease.  You know what I am talking about.  They build a building, have parking out front, loading docks in back and have 3 to 5 spaces with their own front doors for businesses.....many were built during the boom and now have sat for the past 4 years getting no rent.  Maybe offer the owner some rent for the day money to use the spaces......? Anyone know a developer in this situation or a real estate person with contacts for this?

Bo

[Bob in St. Louis]

A suggestion I received via email:

"Another consideration is one of the casino hotels. That will give mom something to do."

[hibuckhobby]

I, for one, would gladly drive down to St. Louis area if such a thing
were to reach fruition.  Here's a thought...the AK fest isn't happening this year.  Perhaps something like that on a little bit smaller scale would work and attract some of the folks who set up their own rooms as well.
Hibuck....

[electricbear]

We could talk with the guys that do the record fairs at the Czec communtiy center and include them in the show. That would increase the attendance.

[thunderbrick]

A suggestion I received via email:

"Another consideration is one of the casino hotels. That will give mom something to do."

It'd be cheaper to buy massive tube monoblocks............

[thunderbrick]

We could talk with the guys that do the record fairs at the Czec communtiy center and include them in the show. That would increase the attendance.

How 'bout a vintage gear display from the Record Exchange? Just for grins.

[Scott F.]

What would be great is to see a new show that truly offers something different than just rooms full of gear.  Don't know what that is, but I'm sure someone will come up with something.

You know, I'm with Jeff on this one. When we were looking at the Moonrise we thought it would be a great draw for the family since the Loop is a nice attraction with its extremely eclectic feel and variety of shops. There is great nightlife and at least 20 restaurants within walking distance, street performers during the day, a major concert venue right next door, Forest Park, the Zoo, History Museum (2 actually), the Jewel Box all a short walk, bus or cab ride away. Then you have the theme based rooms at the Moonrise which would add a bit more uniqueness for each of the vendors.

When it comes to using the FPCC facilities, I'm sure they would work but don't you think that it may be a bit sterile? Classrooms typically have hard walls, tiled floors and big windows across one side of the room. I (and this is just me) would look at a campus situation as pretty impersonal. People would have to know the event was actually happening that weekend to show up. You would have no hope of luring people in off the street who were simply curious. Where at the Moonrise we could place a (A frame) sign out front then run a couple of kids with placards up and down Delmar and curious people would wander in raising the amount foot traffic. Then you have the Rooftop Terrace where after hours you could turn it into a small concert venue/munchies/bar.

For those not familiar with the Moonrise or the Loop, follow this link;
Moonrise Hotel
The Loop

I honestly think the only reason a vendor would commit to coming here is going to be because of the possibility of a lot of foot traffic. We have to be able to get people interested enough to come into any venue we rent. The only way to get peoples interest is to go where they are and the Loop is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) open air, heavily traveled, public areas in the city. Everybody is on foot just walking up and down Delmar checking out the shops and restaurants. There are few other areas in town where we can potentially get the attention of (literally) thousands of people that are essentially milling around looking for something (different) to do. It's too bad the event has to shut down during the evening because that is when the Loop really starts hopping. I've been there on nice evenings and you can barely squeeze your way down the sidewalks. We would just need to figure out a way to lure some of those people into the Moonrise.

Thoughts?

[Steve]

AKfest had well over a thousand come from different areas, even from Tennessee. The fest was also located in a suburb of Detroit in a hotel, not down town.

Cities fairly close to St. Louis (Detroit never had) are DesMoines, Quad Cities, Chicago, Peoria, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Little Rock, Tulsa, Ok city, Kansas City, Omaha etc. We are talking millions in the area.

I think people are going to come because they wish to compare manufacturer's products etc.
The key will be to commit and find a venue that does not charge a fortune. There are already several manufacturers who have expressed interest in exhibiting.

Cheers.

[thunderbrick]

When it comes to using the FPCC facilities, I'm sure they would work but don't you think that it may be a bit sterile? Classrooms typically have hard walls, tiled floors and big windows across one side of the room. I (and this is just me) would look at a campus situation as pretty impersonal. People would have to know the event was actually happening that weekend to show up. You would have no hope of luring people in off the street who were simply curious. Where at the Moonrise we could place a (A frame) sign out front then run a couple of kids with placards up and down Delmar and curious people would wander in raising the amount foot traffic. Then you have the Rooftop Terrace where after hours you could turn it into a small concert venue/munchies/bar.

I honestly think the only reason a vendor would commit to coming here is going to be because of the possibility of a lot of foot traffic. We have to be able to get people interested enough to come into any venue we rent. The only way to get peoples interest is to go where they are and the Loop is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) open air, heavily traveled, public areas in the city. Everybody is on foot just walking up and down Delmar checking out the shops and restaurants. There are few other areas in town where we can potentially get the attention of (literally) thousands of people that are essentially milling around looking for something (different) to do. It's too bad the event has to shut down during the evening because that is when the Loop really starts hopping. I've been there on nice evenings and you can barely squeeze your way down the sidewalks. We would just need to figure out a way to lure some of those people into the Moonrise.

Thoughts?

While FPCC appeals to me on some levels, you are right, Scott, is a sterile and foreboding place, but who's to say that a loop show can't run from 1-8 p.m.?  Could be the best of both worlds.

[jdodmead]

Don't forget about Minneapolis/Minnesota, some of was would jump at it(we can drive), rather than have to book a fliight to Colorado.
I personally would go and love to check out all the bbq.
good luck
Jeff

[kentj1948]

AudioFest Midwest Update 4-1-11

Jim Pendleton and I spent Wednesday checking out the Moonrise, FPCC, and the Doubletree Hotel in Collinsville.  He was interested in seeing the first two places as he was unfamiliar with them.  Thanks for going with and doing the driving.

Jim and I then drove to the Doubletree.  It took about twelve minutes from FPCC.  It is easy to find and has good parking.

To get right to the point, the Doubletree is perfect for our needs.  Thanks, Ryan for suggesting it.

The Doubletree has numerous large meeting rooms, the three smallest of which should work ideally for us.  These rooms rent for $225 per day.  Larger spaces are also available if we need them. 

The Doubletree can provide us with individual exhibitor rooms which are contiguous to the larger rooms and lobby.  We can keep the show within a fairly confined space and on the first floor.  This also makes security issues for the hotel and exhibitors simpler.    (We need to talk further about security wherever we end up.  Maybe we should consider hiring an off-duty policeman/security person for overnight?)

The rooms themselves are slightly larger than those at the Moonrise and made of concrete.  It seems workable that we would not have to alternate rooms to keep noise down.  We would still need to pay for some rooms for furniture storage but maybe only one for every five (?) exhibition rooms. 

The cost for the rooms is $99 per night so the cost for the show is $300 per room.  This should give us the ability to offer the exhibitors rooms very reasonably while covering costs for the extra rooms, publicity, t-shirts, and everything else we need.

I was very impressed with the person we met at the hotel.  She is very experienced in putting on events like ours.  I am not certain that the Moonrise has this sort of experience.  She will contact me back and let me know what weekend(s) from March to June might be slower for them and perhaps better for us.  Otherwise, we can schedule any time of year we want, given sufficient notice.

There is a restaurant within the hotel and other places to eat just off of the Interstate.   The Doubletree’s lounge features Erin Bode on Saturday nights, which clinches it for me.

In brief, here are some of the strengths/weakness of these three sites.

Moonrise

Strengths: great location, very nice place, convenient to Metrolink for people flying in, adequate parking, 

Weaknesses: expensive*, limited number of larger rooms, security/access issues, small lobby, unloading/loading issues (?),

PFCC

I spoke with Ms. Robin Walker at FPCC on Thursday.  She handles outside use of their facilities.  I don’t think using the college is at all feasible.  FPCC charges $25 per hour for classroom use.  In addition, there are charges for the janitors, utilities, and police officers that would be required.  I am not sure that we were ever on the same page as to exactly what we are trying to do and that is another issue that could crop up at a bad time. There are also some questions as to whether exhibitors could do retail sales on the campus. 

I thought his was an idea worth exploring and I think it has been explored enough.   

Strengths: lots of parking, very easy to find, located near other St. Louis attractions,

Weaknesses: not attractive physically and lacks professional feel, security issues, lots of walking needed to get to exhibitors, cafeteria, etc., expensive, unfamiliar with doing sort of show we envision,


Doubletree

Strengths: large and inexpensive enough to work ideally for both starting and continuing show, very nice rooms and facilities, professional people to work with, good parking, easy to find, Erin Bode,

Weaknesses: in Illinois**,

Additional notes

I will send out the updated potential exhibitors list shortly.  If you know of anyone we should add, let me know.  Let’s start breaking this list up and making some contacts.  Even though the date and place is not set, it is still worth discussing this with people that you know.  Let me know who you are contacting so we don’t have six people contact the same potential exhibitor.

I am starting a publicity list as well.  Please let me know of any other contacts where we will want to send press releases.  If you know whom to contact, please include that.

Kentj

*I have definitely contributed to the expense issue with the Moonrise.  I was certain that we would have to have an empty room between exhibitors for storing furniture and noise control.  This may be excessive and the cost could possibly be cut somewhat. 

**What is a weakness to St. Louis residents might be a strength to people coming from Chicago, Indianapolis, Nashville, etc. as they won’t have to deal with the St. Louis traffic and getting across the bridge.

[thunderbrick]

Well done!