[PRELUDE]

Hi,folks
I just got the the "STEREOPHILE" in the mail and the first page made me to think like this
Under the "AS WE SEE IT" Magnepan introduced its new MG3.7 for $5495-$5895/pair and the dealers are not happy and they think that it should be at $10,000/pair
Wendell told them in response "Sell more" and some responded that the higher price would not hurt sales.
Well, thanks God I am DIY otherwise it would be a nice time to quit this hobby.
It goes like this,If you know few things,not driving a $70,000 cars or for sure you waked into the audio dealers and you are not going to spend at least $15,000 then you are not welcome at all.Is this what music is all about or what people think it is better if it is more expensive?
So, if you like your hobby,How would you like to buy your audio equipment?

[bacobits1]

Used always used. Forget "Steropile".
For the most part it is irrelevant to me.
I does not turn me on reading about 40k amps and 80k speakers. Can you say greed? We have, and still have enough of that.
I get it too, only because it's $12.

Let me add I do deal with B&M places just not local.
I did that much more during the 90's in MA when I lived there.
Most are gone now.

D

[James Tanner]

Used always used. Forget "Steropile".
For the most part it is irrelevant to me.
I get it too, only because it's $12.

D

Great avitar   Can you email me a copy please jamestanner@bryston.com

James

[elmalloc]

It was really difficult to read/understand the original post in this thread.   

[eclein]

I mixed used (CL is awesome) with choice new stuff, but 85% of my rig is used or "previously enjoyed"

[James Tanner]

It was really difficult to read/understand the original post in this thread.   

Hi elmalloc,

I do not want to speak for prelude but .... I think PRELUDE was commenting on the fact that some sales people look to sell the most expensive gear they can and if you're not willing to pay the higher price tag you are ignored. So he is glad he has the talent to be a DIY (do it your-self-er) because he can design and build gear that competes with the best at a much lower cost.

Then he asked if most people buy used rather than new given the high costs of some gear?

james

[Napalm]

Built on order. Like in with TONE CONTROLS if I wish so.

Nap.

[bummrush]

The ONLY reason Mag dealers would want to sell at inflated price is once again is greed greed greed thank the world for good guys like Wendell

[vegasdave]

Shame on these dealers!

[jaxwired]

Pretty much have no use for brick and mortar dealers.  I don't visit them ever anymore.  I buy everything via the internet.  Sometimes from dealers, sometimes from private parties, sometimes new, sometimes used.  I much prefer to buy direct at a big discount.  Then I can try lots of gear and resell it for only minimal loss.  If I was wealthy (very wealthy), I might use a B&M dealer and just eat the massive losses when I switch components, but I'm not.

The real problem is that many manufacturers prohibit internet sales and still mandate suggested retail prices that don't allow for traditional (and appropriate) internet discounts.  Fortunately, the flood gates are starting to leak and will soon break wide open.  Anyone that really wants a deep discount can get it on almost any product.

[Elizabeth]

i bought my pile of bryston gear from a local dealer, and glad i could support a local business. I also like the fact i bought North American made stuff to the tune of $20,000. last year. (Bryston: Canada, Magnepan: USA)
There are several dealers in my local metro area, but only one sold Magnepans, and lucky for me they also sold Bryston gear.
Many reasons to buy locally, AND many good reasons to buy American, or North American
And a huge reason to not always shop for price, with no other factor considered.
Anyway, i try to buy locally if i can. I also do buy used from Audiogon at times.
The place where I am cheap is housing, i live in a place below my means, and clothing i wear near-rags, and I entertain myself at home.. so that frees up plenty of money for two channel bliss.
As to where I would LIKE to buy my audio equipment, I can buy it from a nice stable local dealer, or from a great internet source: Audiogon.. So i already have the best of both worlds.

[ChrisBo]

I say find a dealer or two that has a passion for this hobby and can offer you a good mixture of high end gear to go along with entry level equipment.

I prefer local dealers with experience and good refrences .... and above all lots of patience as it took me a few years to build my system.

[Stu Pitt]

I'd like to give the local dealers the benefit of the doubt, but it's gotten so much harder the last 5-10 years.  Yes, times are tough for everyone.  Yes, there needs to be a healthy mark-up on stuff they sell, as the have costs of doing business.

Today's dealers are a different breed IMO.  A person who truly loves music and wants to get his/her customers the best gear to hear their music, regardless of budget has become the exception rather than the norm in my neck of the woods.  If you're not spending several thousand dollars, they treat you like you're a waste of their time.  Now I'm not a business owner/manager, but when I see a store empty and the people there complaining about how hard it is, I don't think anyone buying anything is a waste of time.  Maybe I'm an idiot?

I live in Connecticut, about a 30 minute train ride to Manhattan, and a 10 minute drive to Westchester County, NY.  There's no real shortage of shops or gear to hear.  There's a huge shortage of rational dealers who know the value of a customer who's not made of money, but will buy modestly priced stuff on a regular basis.  There's 2 shops left that I'll do business with.  One is a Bryston dealer in Greenwich, CT - Audiocom, and the other is a Naim/Linn/Rega dealer in Mount Kisko, NY - Accent on Music.  Both understand the value of a guy like me.  I haven't bought the most expensive stuff (not even close), but I have bought stuff on a regular basis.  If they don't have what I'm looking for, then it pretty much doesn't exist to me.

I've been in a very popular shop in Manhattan at least a half dozen times.  No one there has litterally ever said a word to me.  Another popular one told me what to buy and wouldn't let me hear what I came in and asked to hear - twice.  The speakers were hooked up and in my price range, which was about $1500, so it's not as if I was dressed like a bum and asking to hear $100k gear that everyone knew I couldn't afford.  I ended up buying the speakers I asked to hear both times from Audiogon from a dealer who used them as a demo pair. 

There's something seriously wrong with the dealers today.  They have the mentality that the average person is a waste of their time.  Yet they complain everyone buys on Audiogon and the like.  I'd call the owner of the shop that wouldn't let me hear what I asked for on two occasions and explain why I bought them on Audiogon, but what do you say when it's the owner who did it?

The dealer's and most other audiophiles complain that no one new is getting into the hobby and it's dying.  I think my reasons above are a very big reason why.

Maybe if they treated regular people like customers who are the ones who'll really end up keeping the doors open, and actually advertise once in a while, things may pick up a little bit.  Who are they saving the entry level stuff like NAD and Cambridge for anyway?

[Stu Pitt]

Just to add...

Maybe I'm stupid, but I figure it's a hell of a lot easier to profit $100 a thousand times than it is to profit $100,000 once or twice.  If the shop is jam packed, pounce on the highest spenders first. If there's one or two customers in the place, sell them whatever they want.  Can't see how that's so hard.

I guess it's like baseball - it's easier to score a bunch of runs if you're consistantly hitting singles and doubles, rather than trying to hit a homerun off every pitch you see.  I guess today's salesmen are ignoring every easy basehit and only looking at homerun pitches.  Not the smartest approach if you ask me. 

[PRELUDE]

Hi elmalloc,

I do not want to speak for prelude but .... I think PRELUDE was commenting on the fact that some sales people look to sell the most expensive gear they can and if you're not willing to pay the higher price tag you are ignored. So he is glad he has the talent to be a DIY (do it your-self-er) because he can design and build gear that competes with the best at a much lower cost.

Then he asked if most people buy used rather than new given the high costs of some gear?

james

You got the point,Thanks James

[PRELUDE]

Pretty much have no use for brick and mortar dealers.  I don't visit them ever anymore.  I buy everything via the internet.  Sometimes from dealers, sometimes from private parties, sometimes new, sometimes used.  I much prefer to buy direct at a big discount.  Then I can try lots of gear and resell it for only minimal loss.  If I was wealthy (very wealthy), I might use a B&M dealer and just eat the massive losses when I switch components, but I'm not.

The real problem is that many manufacturers prohibit internet sales and still mandate suggested retail prices that don't allow for traditional (and appropriate) internet discounts.  Fortunately, the flood gates are starting to leak and will soon break wide open.  Anyone that really wants a deep discount can get it on almost any product.

[Quiet Earth]

Wow, Stu, those are some tough stories man. Sorry to hear about it.  We had one high brow store like that in our cow town about twenty years ago.  When the economy cycled down they cycled out with it. That's usually the nature of things,,, what goes around comes around. Maybe your area is due for a big correction? Something's not right over there. It takes real guts to open a new store in my area,, any kind of store. With the price of rent going up regardless of empty retail space abound, and the economy being as fragile as it is ........ it takes guts. And common sense to stay in business.

I know that dealers in my general area would rather have access to a lot more inexpensive gear (provided that gear is a good value) because those items generate steady revenue (bread and butter), plus associated gear sales, plus repeat customers. The high end stuff is usually for the repeat customer looking to upgrade.

I have to believe that this is the rule and not the exception.

I'm also with Elizabeth on this one. I like to support my local sheriff as well as clicking add to cart. Just tryin' to spread the economic recovery love .... 




What the hell am I doing in the Bryston circle anyway? You guys have all the good conversations. No fair. 

[JLM]

We have two shops within an hour's travel.  Neither offer tubed gear and mostly do HT.  I only know of two pure audio shops within 4 hour travel.  Very few shops have any knowledge beyond what they sell.

The way I prefer to buy equipment:

1. Use the internet to research;

2. Visit audiofests/local clubs to audition just to determine if the particular piece could remain under consideration;

3. Audition at home.

Twenty years ago we had a local guy who sold out of his basement by appointment only.  He used an average sized/finished room for auditions.  He worked it as a part-time job, so the auditions were evenings/weekends.  Obviously he was limited on what he could offer, but he cleared really good money.  Unfortunately he got greedy and opened a B&M store, which had to go towards HT, and then custom installations (which flopped in this economy).

I've also wondered why audiofest vendors don't stay on for an extra day to offer private auditions for on-site sales (so they don't have to haul the stuff home).

[S Clark]

Like most of us, I try to squeeze the last bit of value out of a dollar.  In my area the nearest store with gear of interest is 150-200 miles away, so I have little experience with them.  Much of my electronics are used, and my speakers are diy kits from GR-Research. I have a Dodd buffer kit, and a Dodd battery pre that I bought direct from Gary after listening to the prototype in my listening room.   Most of my cabling is used (except a Wywires Juice) or DIY.  One dac is used, and the other is built from a Twisted Pear Buffalo kit. 
The big purchases for me were the Dodd Pre and the LS-9 kit from Danny.  Although neither were cheap, I consider high quality products for the $. 
My next purchase may be from a dealer, looking at the McCormack DNA250 for under $2500-- but would rather find a Moscode 401 or 402 used.

[Stu Pitt]

Quiet Earth,

I could go on and on.  I'd love to believe that the NYC area is the exception rather than the rule, but it's not really the case.  I used to travel a lot with my old job.  During my down time on the road, I'd try to pop in to a hifi shop if I could.  There were some very good ones, but there was no shortage of bad ones either.

The hifi shop with the smartest business model IMO is Hippo's in Albany, NY (where I grew up).  They carry stuff in just about every price range - from Sony to McIntosh.  A lot of people would probably look down on a hifi shop carrying Sony, but I think it's a great thing.  They've got it set up next to stuff like Cambridge and B&W.  When people come in looking for a Sony system (or anything else), they show them everything in that price range.  Very few Sony systems get bought, except for TVs.

They also locally advertise in newspapers, radio and TV. They actually have sales, like their annual Father's Day sale.  Nothing is less than 10% off.  They put Sony stuff along side McIntosh stuff in their fliers.

A lot of shops have come and gone over the last 30 years or so.  Some of them were good shops, others not so much.  They outlasted Cicuit City and Tweeter which were a few blocks away.  There's a Best Buy 5 blocks away in a very busy mall, yet they're still around and doing fine.  They're struggling a bit with the current economy, but they'll get through it.

Did I mention that their staff is knowledgeable, friendly, and not pushy at all?

Seems like what they're doing should be common sense to any hifi shop.  I guess not though, as I've never seen any other hifi shop do anything like this.