[jriggy]

Hi all,

 I have recently become serious about finishing our attic into a listening space. It is plenty big enough to do a 16x25 or smaller room.... This is only in the very beginnings of preliminary stages but I had a few questions right off the bat that would help me in the right direction.

First of all, can a good space for audio be created with an attic pitched ceiling if designed and treated properly?
Secondly, online resources??? where can I go for trusted info to begin learning?
And last but not least, should I entertain having the space designed from blueprint by an acoustic engineer?

Once again, I am completely green here - but that doesn't mean I cant dream big! I want to get moving on a plan and know you guys can send me in the right direction.

Jason

[Rob Babcock]

Wow, I envy you!  I'd love to have a dedicated space that I could build out to purpose.  Hopefully the real experts can weigh in with some advice.

[arthurs]

If I was starting from scratch, it would go something like this...

Step one....hire Jeff Hedback   www.hdacoustics.net

(Has worked with several members here, is reasonable and exceptional...)

[jriggy]

If I was starting from scratch, it would go something like this...

Step one....hire Jeff Hedback   www.hdacoustics.net

(Has worked with several members here, is reasonable and exceptional...)

AND he is located in my area code!!!

I have actually been asking around to find out if I know anyone that knows him, as I have friends at some of the local studios... Would love a first hand 'recommendation' from a friend of his... You have confirmed him for me again though.

I would still like to find few trusted links so I can educate myself.

Edit: Oh! arthurs, just noticed you have one of his rooms!

[rollo]

Hi all,

 I have recently become serious about finishing our attic into a listening space. It is plenty big enough to do a 16x25 or smaller room.... This is only in the very beginnings of preliminary stages but I had a few questions right off the bat that would help me in the right direction.

First of all, can a good space for audio be created with an attic pitched ceiling if designed and treated properly?
Secondly, online resources??? where can I go for trusted info to begin learning?
And last but not least, should I entertain having the space designed from blueprint by an acoustic engineer?

Once again, I am completely green here - but that doesn't mean I cant dream big! I want to get moving on a plan and know you guys can send me in the right direction.

Jason

  If it is in your budget absolutely a yes in hiring an Acoustic Consultant. Both Ethan and Brian who post here are very helpfull to all on the forum. Give either a call.
  An attic space is difficult to transform as the varying clg heights and roof slope will determine the actual room size ratio to clg. height.
  Room treatment would be key for that type of space. Get help.


charles

[bpape]

You can certainly do a nice space in an attic.  Yes - there are some additional things that need to be addressed given the pitched ceilings but it's doable.  One of the biggest issues is how wide you can place the speakers.

Bryan

[Ethan Winer]

It is plenty big enough to do a 16x25 or smaller room.

25 by 16 is perfect, and I wouldn't go smaller. As Bryan said, that room could be fine with proper layout and treatment. You'll want the speakers to fire the longer way down the room. Beside the usual corner bass traps and side-wall reflection absorbers, you also need absorption under the peak to avoid focusing. Can you post one or two photos showing the entire space in context?

--Ethan

[Jeffrey Hedback]

Hello Jason,

I would be glad to chat about your space and goals (and thank you Art for your kind support).

To your questions:
- the footprint should offer solid potential.  Ceiling height and slope of walls need to be looked at closely.
- A pitched ceiling can work.  I find there can be a very strong upper bass, lo-mid resonance (depending on profile and scale) that is tough to clean up...but certainly not a deal-breaker.
- Where would I research?  I would first get familiar with the language of this type effort.  I would break it down to two categories being sound isolation and internal acoustics.  I would personally look at www.soundisolationcompany.com, Green Glue's site and the www.Acoustics101.com site (posted by Auralex).  These three sites will help put some of the language into your awareness.  There are other good ones.

For internal acoustics, Ethan's site & GIK's site are full of on-point data.  I would also browse RPG's site just to be more aware of diffusion coefficient data.  It helps ("understating") to know how to look at an overall NRC number, the specific absorption coefficients at various frequencies, and Sabine numbers when developing internal room acoustics.

I would think about what the finished room would look like and pic images that really grab me. 

[jriggy]

Thanks guys!

I knew the pitched ceiling would be an issue but glad to hear it is a solvable one.

And Jeff, well, you're right here!  hello   I hope we can possibly work together... Im just south on Broad Ripple here in Indy. I will send you an email this week, and in the mean time will begin my own research to learn the language...
This is a project that must keep affordability in mind and honestly is only happening because I have great friends. One is a carpenter and the other an electrician - of which both have agreed and signed on.

I will post pics of the space as soon as it is cleaned out a little more... First step, rent space from the self-storage around the corner to empty the attic  

[Retsel]

I read many posts by different acoustical experts and at the end of the day I concluded that a cathedral ceiling is desirable from an accoustics perspective.  However, the best orientation for the peak of the cathedral ceiling is perpendicular to the orientation of the speakers to the listener, not parallel.  The reason why a cathedral ceiling is superior is because you avoid the slap echo and resonances caused by the parallel surfaces of a flat ceiling with the floor (the two largest surfaces of the room).  The peak of the ceiling is a place for bass resonances to form, so the peak should have absorption to form a bass trap.  The falling ceiling towards the back of the listener must be checked to be sure that the ceiling is not reflecting sound directly to the listener, and if it is, then it must be damped. 

Retsel

[Big Red Machine]

My first concern was the attic itself and ventilation.  Given that it is set up to ventilate as a large space, be sure to address how it will continue to ventilate up and around the finished space now that you will invade that path.

[bpape]

If running the peak of the ceiling perpendicular to the listening axis, the front angle helps minimize reflections, the rear angle provides an excellent place for diffusion, and the peak provides an opportunity for broadband bass control while minimizing the impact on floor space requirements for such.

Bryan

[JLM]

Good point Red.

My attics have 15 inches of insulation with soffit/ridge venting.  The O.P. may need to build a false ceiling within the roof to allow for insulation/venting.  Note that this will lose 12 to 18 inches of space.

Isolation to the spaces below will be a challenge too (any isolated/floating floor will have acoustic impacts).  I recommend lined flexible fiberglass insulated ductwork to serve the space and an insulated fiberglass exterior door with weather seals (that's what I did for my room). 

The O.P. will also have to consider the additional heating/ventilation/air conditioning loads on existing equipment.

I'll leave the acoustics to Jeff and look forward to the final outcome. 

[ted_b]

AND he is located in my area code!!!

I have actually been asking around to find out if I know anyone that knows him, as I have friends at some of the local studios... Would love a first hand 'recommendation' from a friend of his... You have confirmed him for me again though.

I would still like to find few trusted links so I can educate myself.

Edit: Oh! arthurs, just noticed you have one of his rooms!

Jason,
Jeff did my room, too. (see in gallery or system link)  He is great.  I wouldn't hesitate to use him, whether for whole room analysis and design, or just for some technical backup.  And I also make use of over two dozen of Ethan's great Realtrap products. 

With enough pre-thought, some open-mindedness (some of the ideas or conclusions can be game-changers but may require some flexibility) , and the likes of Jeff, Ethan and Bryan here on AC you should be good to go. 

[Jeffrey Hedback]

Thanks Ted!!  You are the best in my book.

Here's an update on Jason's project.  We have indeed begun the discovery process.  I've accessed the space and created basic specifications and a general concept.  Due to the age and construction methods of Jason's house, we've engaged a structural engineer study.  Once that is completed, Jason and I will have a clear path ahead and the comfort of knowing that this project won't harm his foundation or structure.

BTW- the concept I created did indeed provide for proper HVAC function.  Great "eye" Big Red Machine and JLM.

[ted_b]

Thanks Ted!!  You are the best in my book.

See, Art, I told you he likes me best!   

[arthurs]

Clearly Ted, he completely ignored that I recommended him to the OP and then just plain states you are the best...he likely won't even take my calls anymore....

[Jeffrey Hedback]

now now guys...I in no way way ignored your referral to Jason and I have just one thing to say.  Art, you're the best in my book.

[ted_b]

Clearly Ted, he completely ignored that I recommended him to the OP and then just plain states you are the best...he likely won't even take my calls anymore....

No, he said "thanks for the kind support".  Kinda like saying the blind date has "a nice personality".    LOL.

Edit:  WAIT, c'mon Jeff!!!  What the.....   

Seriously, Jason you will be so happy with the work Jeff does, and most importantly...with how music sounds in your room!

[arthurs]

Just teasing Jeff, it's all good ...... and yes Jason, you will be thrilled with what Jeff can do for your room....