[jtwrace]

I know of one comparison that has been done...anyone else? 

[ted_b]

I know of one, too!!!    Oh wait, maybe....er, it's the same one.    

To fill readers in, Mike Galusha did 2 shootouts, and in both cases the Alix (MPD Linux minimalist $150) and Mac Mini beat the Windows setups handily.  In the first shootout the Alix won by a slim margin over a tweaked out Mac Mini.  But in the follow up shootout, Wayne's modded 2010 external PS Mach2Mini with Macsandwich scored a knockout over the Alix, both of which had earlier once again beaten the windows servers.  Wild stuff!!!!

Mike may jump in with details, dunno.

[ebag4]

I would be very interested in comparisons using the Tranquility DAC.

Best,
Ed

[ted_b]

Tom S is one of AC's Alix gurus (headed by the man...Nick, AKA nyc_paramedic), my Linux mentor, and all-around great resource.  Anyway, Tom is travelling but mentioned this great point.

"Probably should note in the thread the cost of Alix is $120 plus linear ps which is cheap. For those looking for ultimate perhaps $3k or so for the loaded mini is the only answer they need but for the broader AC community the Alix is a great option that will only get better with the groundswell of support building for high end Linux USB audio."

[Wayne1]

I was involved with the second shoot-out. While I did mod the 2010 Mac Mini and build the custom, prototype PS for it, it was done at the request of a customer. The gear does not belong to me. I will try to be upfront with my thoughts, but do realize the comparisons do include gear I have worked on.

If you think this is better off posted in my forum, I will move it over there.

Some time ago I mentioned I would like to develop a mod to convert the 2010 Mac Mini to use an external linear PS. If anyone was interested, please send me a Mac Mini and I'll work a deal with you. Months passed and finally someone took me up on the offer. I removed the switcher and installer wiring and a connector to plug a linear power supply into it. The customer also wanted Mach 2 to upgrade the hardrive to SSD and install their scripts. It was also a good chance for them to compare one of their modded Mac Minis to the same unit but with a linear power supply.

When they returned it to me, they called me up to comment. They were quite amazed at the magnitude of the difference. They were expecting a lower noise floor and more dynamics, but the linear turned things up quite a bit higher than they thought was possible. Jaw dropping was mentioned a few times in the conversation.

Yesterday I brought the modded Mac Mini over to Mike Galusha's to see how the full Mach 2 upgrade would compare to his Linux and Windows machine. When I first arrived, the Linux box was playing and sounding very good. Mike was controlling it from his Android phone. We then proceeded to unpack an set up the Mach 2 Mini. Neither Mike or I are much of Mac guys. Jason (Pez) claimed he had more important things to do by playing with his newborn daughter to help us.

Eventually we got the unit to talk the the DAC and for I-tunes to talk to Amarra. The Mac Mini was loaded with the full version of Amarra. That is what we used for the comparison. Mike had loaded some 24/96 WAV files on a USB drive that were transferred to the Mac's SSD. The Mac was run just off the internal drive. It was not connected to the Mike's network. The output of the Mac was run into the HRT Music Streamer II+ DAC that Mike recently received. This was also used on the Linux box.

Playing the same files on the two different boxes, it was easily apparent the full monty, modded Mach 2 Mac Mini was the better sounding unit. The low end extended deeper with more impact and less boom. The mids were sweet and clear with a smoothness that was very close to the best analog I have heard. The highs were delicate with no trace of sharpness. Clearly a better sounding source.

The windows 7 box had problems integrating with the HRT. We switched over to Mike's Sabre DAC and the sound was thin and harsh. Mike changed from kernal streaming to ASIO and the sound became closer to that of the Linux but the balance was tilted up and not as dynamic.

In the system we had together yesterday, I would say the modded Mac Mini was the clear winner. These comments are only about a 2010 Mac Mini using a linear power supply and the full Mach 2 mods running the full version of Amarra. This was run only as a music server. Most other functions were turned off. It was not connected to a network or the Internet. Any other year Mac, with a switching power supply and not modded by Mach 2 will sound quite a bit different.

Mike's Linux box is very good sounding. Especially for the money. FWIW, he was also using a linear PS on his box. The Mach 2 modded unit, with all the goodies, 8GB RAM, 120 GB SSD, Amarra, Mac Sandwich, removal of switching supply, linear power supply, AC cable, DC cable all comes in at north of $4k.

Which one would I have? If I could get over my anti-Apple bias, I would probably go for the Mach 2 modded Mini with a linear. It would be a steep learning curve for me, being used to the ease of the Logitech Touch. I'm not sure I could deal with having all my hard drives in the same room. If the Mach 2 guys work out scripts to allow ease of access over a network without detriment to the sound quality, I would be more interested.

What I will say is the Mach 2 modded Mac Mini, playing Amarra, with a linear power supply is the best computer source I have heard. It has drawbacks. It is not an everything box. It is music playback only. It is a Mac You do have to be careful to what DAC you use to interface the MAC to your system. Some, like the Hi-Face, have some buggy scripts that aren't quite ready for prime time. Some will only allow 16/44.1 resolution, which does sound spectacular on the MAC. The HRT seems to be a very good value and gets along just fine with both the Linux and the MAC. It will only go to 24/96.

The Linux/Alix system is a very good second. The cost is 10% of the Mac. The sound is maybe 75-80%

The Windows 7 system does not enter into the picture when compared to the Mac and the Linux, IMHO.

[ted_b]

Wayne, thanks for that.  It seems the magic sauce is a combination of the Mach2 scripts and the much better power supply, and maybe the macsandwich as well.  Did you try it without a macsandwich or without any other "tweak"?   

Mike, this is a tough question but do you think the Alix sounded as good yesterday as it did when it beat the "stock" (but tweaked) Mac Mini the first time?  Did you use the HRT the first time too?

75-80%??      That's a whoopin at these levels!

[Wayne1]

FWIW, the USB cable used in all the comparisons was the same. I believe Mike said it was a Belkin Gold.

I do not believe we tried the MacMini without the Mac Sandwich. We did try the the Mac Sandwich on the Alix box. It did change the sound. The bass changed quite a bit. It lessened. It could be that it tightened up and removed a resonance between the Alix box and Mike's rack. To be sure, he would have had to retune the system. We didn't want to take the time to do that.

Mike may have a different opinion on the difference between the Alix and the modded Mac. I am sure with more tweaks the Alix could get closer. For the money, it is a bargain. For the cost no object, I just want the best possible sound group, the modded Mac is the way to go, IMO.

[JDUBS]

I have both but only use the Mini at this point as it just has SO much more functionality.  I'm specifically speaking about it's use with Pure Music and various plug-ins and an 8-channel DAC to produce a fully active 4-way system.  I did the Alix thing more as a proof of concept (there's an online guide for settng it up - it's not hard).  Its a fine and very economical streaming solution if you're ok with 2 channels of output..

-Jim

[ted_b]

Jim,
You seem to put the Alix in a midfi, worth it's cost, kind of a category.  I think the reason many already-hi-end audiophiles here were interested in it is not primarily for its $120 cost 9although it is a sign of minimalism) because they liked the idea of a truly dedicated music server, with true minimalist processing...theorizing that the jack of all trades OS's were, by their nature, masters of none.  Even many tests have shown that these linux appliances more than hold their own against stock and even tweaked out Mac Mini configurations.  This thread's test of a $4100 Mac Mini setup shows, in one instance, that money can still be spent to make the Mac OSX the preferred route.

Are you saying the Alix is just ok sonically, or are you saying you spent little time with it since it doesn't live with your active XO setup?

[JDUBS]

Ted, don't get me wrong, I liked the Alix well enough and would still be using it streaming to my (since sold) DEQX, if I didn't think the Mac Mini was a superior option when it comes to a >2-way system.  I.e., for me, the Mini streaming music from my server to an 8-channel DAC is superior to the Alix steaming to a DEQX.  Apples and oranges, but the Mini is just more flexible in such instances.

Jim

[jtwrace]

Jim

What Generation Mini are you using?  Upgrades?

[JDUBS]

Jim

What Generation Mini are you using?  Upgrades?

I'm using an '09 Mini with 8gb of ram, 40gb ssd, the latest snow leopard and the latest Pure Music.  Also using the stock ps, but fed from a double conversion ups via a diy balanced power conditioner.  I have a Plitron 18v transformer ready to pair up with a Hynes regulator (when it arrives) to build a really nice linear ps.

-Jim

[jrebman]

Oh Wayne, I wish you hadn't said all that !

Where can I read about this shootout in more detail?

Mike and I exchanged email last weekend and he told me about this, but I forgot to ask him if he had posted it somewhere.

I still plan to finish my two alix boxes for the living rooom system and my headphone rig in the bedroom, but for my listening room, I really want the best possible sonics.

-- Jim

[Wayne1]

Jim,

Sorry 

The modded 2010 Mac Mini did not have much time on it. It is possible it will continue to improve. It is off to Australia later this week, so no more comparisons will be possible.

The Alix was run off a linear power supply that Mike had. I do not know how it was built. It was receiving the data through Mike's network. All the music files are located on his server. The Mac Mini had the files loaded onto the SSD. I do not know if this would make a big enough difference in sound to get the Alix closer to the Mac Mini. Mach2 Music has mentioned that they feel files sent though a network sound lifeless compared to files stored on a HD and connected to the Mach2 Mini with firewire.

The Alix was run headless and controlled through Mike's phone. The Mac Mini was connected to a monitor and keyboard. I imagine if the Mac was run headless, the sound might improve a bit more.

Mike will have to be the one to comment on any details of his builds.

There was a notable difference in sound when the Alix box was held in the Mac Sandwich. For those that do own the Alix box, I think this might be an area for experimentation to see just what materials will change the sound of the unit to your liking.

The comparison was done this past Sunday afternoon. I do not think Mike has had the time to post his impressions of the listening session. I have posted my thoughts, Mike was pretty much in agreement with my overall conclusion that the Mac Mini sounded better than the Alix. His perception of the degree of difference may well be contrary to mine.

[jrebman]

Thanks Wayne for the additional details, and yes, the keyboard and monitor (especially) will degrade the sound of the mini.  I have this same basic setup -- 2010 mini, mach2 mods, mac sandwich, Pi MPC+ PC, external FW drive, etc. and right now, even with a brand new MPC+ and an ampino for an amp, things are sounding quite lovely, though still missing the magic of good SET 2a3 amps, which are waiting for my LDR attenuator to be repaired/modified.  When that gets back, I'll have a much better sense of things, and then may also have the alix board done as well.

It's all a process.

Thanks,

Jim

P.S. -- so where's this shootout that that people are alking about?

[ted_b]

It was receiving the data through Mike's network. All the music files are located on his server. The Mac Mini had the files loaded onto the SSD. I do not know if this would make a big enough difference in sound to get the Alix closer to the Mac Mini. Mach2 Music has mentioned that they feel files sent though a network sound lifeless compared to files stored on a HD and connected to the Mach2 Mini with firewire.

Wayne, et al

I asked Rob (Pure Music) about this, as Mike and I both speculated that the network shouldn't matter in the least.  On the MAC Pure Music plays from memory, and once it's in RAM, who cares where it comes from.  Rob concurred and said he loves the sound of his Synology networked files.  Moreover, if bandwidth is at all an ingredient he says 24/192 is all of 1 mb/sec and any network can handle it.  So, I'd love to understand why network file access would have a sonic difference.  I'm all ears; as one who hears differences in FLAC vs wav I'm open to any explanation that may include "we don't why yet, it just is".