Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades

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rollo

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Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« on: 23 Feb 2011, 08:32 pm »
Blair, your preamp is quite good!  Had a fun listening session today at Hammer's place with a few other GAS guys. WOW!!  i'm really blown away.

Hammer normally powers the full range drivers in his speakers with a SS amp, and it sounds great. We inserted the NS-15 p/p amp that I picked up from Tin Ear, and the sound got even better. Hammer's speaker design has to be heard & witnessed in person...just fantastic.

Hopefully, Hammer got bit by the tube bug today!!

Aside from the wall to wall sound & insanely smooth vocals, the wildest part of a full Niteshade set-up is the silence. Hard to believe that 2 tube based components don't produce even the slightest husshhh, on 96db efficient full range drivers with my ear just inches away.

I'm sold.  Blair you have a PM.

matt



 hey man where ya been ? miss ya from the Promitheus days.


charles

gooberdude

Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #1 on: 24 Feb 2011, 07:34 pm »
Hey Charles!   It has been a while, good to see you are still active & dropping knowledge here on AC.

About 2 yrs ago I moved from Chicago to St Louis (my hometown) and have been out of the audio hobby since. 

I'm ordering a Beacon III SE this week, and sending Blair some upgraded components like DH Labs RCA plugs & Audio Note tube sockets.  He'll allow me to buy difft capacitors too.  I know zero about them though, so if anyone has a suggestion i'm all ears.  (4uf @ 450V - need 2 of them)


Matt

jtwrace

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Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #2 on: 24 Feb 2011, 07:46 pm »
(4uf @ 450V - need 2 of them)


Matt

I've heard many great things about the Obbligato Gold Series. 
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_obbligato_gold.html

Niteshade

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Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #3 on: 24 Feb 2011, 08:27 pm »
Just looked at them- very nice! Either the 4.7's or 6.8's will work great. I'm open to other suggestions as well.

I've heard many great things about the Obbligato Gold Series. 
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_obbligato_gold.html

gooberdude

Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #4 on: 25 Feb 2011, 12:02 am »
The big ones would cost about $50 shipped. no problemo...

I'm really leaning towards using Blairs caps, but have found Blair's willingness to work with other parts quite refreshing.

Do these caps need to be matched?  And is it a bad idea to buy a only pair of them, when Blair can buy his in bulk & has control over the selection? My only experience with caps is in x-overs.

The internal chassis of my NS-15 amp is sparse, in terms of # of parts. Not low budget by any means though. Its not costing an arm & a leg to upgrade the Beacon III SE. The RCA's cost $12 each & the tube sockets are...a bit pricey at $30/ea. I'd like to reduce the amount of brass in my system (and buy US & Japanese made parts), for example, and Blair hasn't been offended by my paranoia.  I have CMC silver rca's on another amp, and considered buying their copper tube sockets & silver rca's (ebay).

FWIW - If anyone has experience with yamamoto terminal strips, let me know. 

Once the dust settles i'll have pd about $2K, and hope to have a preamp that i keep for a long, long time. The Beacon II is no joke or taste of the week.


Niteshade

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #5 on: 25 Feb 2011, 02:03 pm »
I moved this since it was a tangent on the tour thread.  :D

The caps do not have to be matched.

The capacitors I use are exceptionally high quality, so we can stick with them if you like. In fact, they're so husky they will probably never go bad in 30 years since they're working at a mere fraction of what they're rated to do. You can use those other ones if you like- they will work as well.

Anti-resonance: Wood side trim is the best thing we can do if you want it. I have an anti-resonant chassis designed for tube amps, but needs a little more development for a preamp since a faceplate is required. It can be done though. I can look into what you mentioned as well.

I am not against trying new ingredients in a preamp. In fact, I think this is a great subject!

rollo

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #6 on: 25 Feb 2011, 07:02 pm »
  Glad to see you back hook line and sinker. Just remember what Nelson Pass suggests. It is not "the" part but how they interact with each other. Caps will change the sonics. If ya want neutral with weight and detail V-cap Teflon copper. if ya want lush color the obligattos are the ticket. Mundorf Supreme silver/gold offer some of both.
   My opinion use the caps nightshade uses and beef a tube regulated power supply. A regulated choked power supply will offer more than a cap IMO. Now for strips. Copper baby copper.
   After having the beacon 2 here for a while as designed for that price it was stellar. sometimes a good thing is a good thing, without mods. Then again if Blair feels an improvement can be wrought then by all means go for the gold man.
   I would trust Blair 100% with my money and finished product. The only creveat I had was the SS tube rectification. good luck with your project.


charles
 

gooberdude

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #7 on: 1 Mar 2011, 02:45 am »
i'm going to order the Beacon III SE, which is tube rectified.  I agree w/Blair 100% that upgrades to the circuit are going to effect the sound more than boutique parts.

honestly, the Beacon II just blew me away and i'd be wildly happy with it. I want a fully optioned & loaded preamp though, and Blair thought the Beacon III circuit would be better for my needs now & in the future.

And Blair is not suggesting that I buy premium parts...quite the contrary!  I'm satisfying my desire to be tweaky, nothing more.

The Audio Note UX8 tube sockets arrived today. they are awesome! tube rolling will be a textural experience, rather than a nerve racking test of my dexterity & man strength.   :lol:

I looked into all copper terminal strips, $15 each for Grennan Audio...not gonna happen.  The Beacon III uses 14 strips.  Yamamoto strips aren't out of the question though, at $5 each.

matt

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #8 on: 5 Mar 2011, 11:01 am »

The caps do not have to be matched.

The capacitors I use are exceptionally high quality, so we can stick with them if you like. In fact, they're so husky they will probably never go bad in 30 years since they're working at a mere fraction of what they're rated to do. You can use those other ones if you like- they will work as well.

I am not against trying new ingredients in a preamp. In fact, I think this is a great subject!

Yep, that's why I am or have your preamp on my short list. Those caps, why do they not have to be matched values? 450V, how much voltage are you seeing at the output? Is the reason for the high V because you are using caps that will not be used to there full voltage?

Ray

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #9 on: 5 Mar 2011, 11:11 am »
  Glad to see you back hook line and sinker. Just remember what Nelson Pass suggests. It is not "the" part but how they interact with each other. Caps will change the sonics. If ya want neutral with weight and detail V-cap Teflon copper. if ya want lush color the obligattos are the ticket. Mundorf Supreme silver/gold offer some of both.
   My opinion use the caps nightshade uses and beef a tube regulated power supply. A regulated choked power supply will offer more than a cap IMO. Now for strips. Copper baby copper.
   After having the beacon 2 here for a while as designed for that price it was stellar. sometimes a good thing is a good thing, without mods. Then again if Blair feels an improvement can be wrought then by all means go for the gold man.
   I would trust Blair 100% with my money and finished product. The only creveat I had was the SS tube rectification. good luck with your project.


charles
 

Hey Charles,

Well, you did your thing with the Beacon 2, and how did it compare with your 10K preamp? You didn't mention that in your review. At least, I don't remember reading that.

As far as rectification goes, Blair, tells me that the only difference between tube and ss type is just that, one more serviceable part. Another words, he says no difference because how he is implementing the rectification. In a few threads back, you can see that discussion.

Blair, so is your supply at least on the B+ side, is it choked? Is it just one stage or several? Since you say that the tube or SS rectification doesn't make any difference, then with the SS rectification, can you double up (in series) to stiffen up the supply?

Hey Matt, glad to see you back. Kinda wondered what happened to you.

Ray Bronk

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #10 on: 5 Mar 2011, 01:31 pm »
Tube rectification: I designed an upgrade package that will take advantage of tube rectification plus make the purest DC a preamp would ever wish to have.

With the standard power supply, there is no difference between tube or solid state rectification.

Capacitors within the audio circuit: The output interface capacitors are designed to transfer high current pulses and work well at high frequencies. What's being done is the equivalent of putting a 454ci V8 in a Hyundai Elantra.  8)

gooberdude

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #11 on: 5 Mar 2011, 07:35 pm »
Hey Ray!  Its good to be back, and to know that some of the regulars like you & Rollo are still here and contributing.  Oh, and i still use your soldering station!  No joke!  I'm about to buy a new Weller system or equivalent, but your generosity a few yrs was unexpected & saved me so much money versus buying fancy interconnects.  I still can't solder to save my life, but now that i've moved back home my dad (an old EE) and I are tossing around all sorts of DIY projects.  Even though your old iron doesn't heat up the way it used to, i still find my self burning wires every so often  :)

I'm ordering a Beacon III SE from Blair, it has tube rectification. I'm pretty sure the SE designation means this. I also have an NS-15 amp that i bought used here from Tin_Ear, and will send that to blair soon for some updates, including switchable rectification.

Through the multitude of PM's that i've shared with Blair, this buying experience is akin to what i think buying a new Rolls Royce might be like. The options seem to be limitless, and Blair is happy to oblige.

Right now we're planning to have (2) volume controls, tone controls for treble/bass, tube rectification, chassis damping & i've purchased rca jacks & uber smooth AN tube sockets...and probably a few bits that i'm forgetting.

My new place is horrible for sound. Having channel balance & tone controls may be critical considering the 14' tall open beam ceilings, long wall/short wall scenarios & a host of other unfavorable acoustic features.

TBH, i was considering an all Van Alstine system for this next go around.  But i'm saving money going with Niteshade, and don't think i'm giving up anything in terms of SQ & options.

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #12 on: 6 Mar 2011, 02:46 am »
Tube rectification: I designed an upgrade package that will take advantage of tube rectification plus make the purest DC a preamp would ever wish to have.

With the standard power supply, there is no difference between tube or solid state rectification.

Capacitors within the audio circuit: The output interface capacitors are designed to transfer high current pulses and work well at high frequencies. What's being done is the equivalent of putting a 454ci V8 in a Hyundai Elantra.  8)

Hi Blair,

Well, there's nothing like a clean power supply, the cleaner DC output the better sonically. So, Blair, lol, where's my commission? Just kidding.

ok, so this takes advantage of tube rectification. Now, tell me, with this power supply, what would be the diff between tube versus SS? Anotherwords, why a tube rectifier?

Ar you gonna use tube regulation too as opposed to SS? I'm told it does make a difference.

Ray Bronk

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #13 on: 6 Mar 2011, 03:05 am »
Hey Ray!  Its good to be back, and to know that some of the regulars like you & Rollo are still here and contributing.  Oh, and i still use your soldering station!  No joke!  I'm about to buy a new Weller system or equivalent, but your generosity a few yrs was unexpected & saved me so much money versus buying fancy interconnects.  I still can't solder to save my life, but now that i've moved back home my dad (an old EE) and I are tossing around all sorts of DIY projects.  Even though your old iron doesn't heat up the way it used to, i still find my self burning wires every so often  :)

I'm ordering a Beacon III SE from Blair, it has tube rectification. I'm pretty sure the SE designation means this. I also have an NS-15 amp that i bought used here from Tin_Ear, and will send that to blair soon for some updates, including switchable rectification.

Through the multitude of PM's that i've shared with Blair, this buying experience is akin to what i think buying a new Rolls Royce might be like. The options seem to be limitless, and Blair is happy to oblige.

Right now we're planning to have (2) volume controls, tone controls for treble/bass, tube rectification, chassis damping & i've purchased rca jacks & uber smooth AN tube sockets...and probably a few bits that i'm forgetting.

My new place is horrible for sound. Having channel balance & tone controls may be critical considering the 14' tall open beam ceilings, long wall/short wall scenarios & a host of other unfavorable acoustic features.

TBH, i was considering an all Van Alstine system for this next go around.  But i'm saving money going with Niteshade, and don't think i'm giving up anything in terms of SQ & options.

Hi Mattt,

Good to see you back. As to the soldering station, go to www.circuitspecialist.com and in there columns for soldering stations get the one which is for soldering leadless solder. I'll try to look it up, and send you a PM. Nothing against Weller, but they are overpriced. The reason I chose this particular unit is that the hand grip to solder tip is closer/shorter  than the standard iron. Now for you, this may not be a big thing. But for me, it is almost as if I were actually putting my hand on the tip and placing it on the solder point.

As to the Beacon 3, well, a bit envious, but I'm glad. I don't think between the SAS versus the NS, you would have made a bad choice either way, especially now I know what amp you ar using.

Hmmm, so what is this gonna run you? Ok, being nosy. So what made you ultimately choose Blair as opposed to AVA? Just curious. Well, PM me or write me here, that's up to you. Talk to you later.

Ray Bronk

dangerbird

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #14 on: 6 Mar 2011, 03:41 am »
Right now we're planning to have (2) volume controls, tone controls for treble/bass, tube rectification, chassis damping & i've purchased rca jacks & uber smooth AN tube sockets...and probably a few bits that i'm forgetting.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^quote^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you don't mind me asking,,what  rca's are you having installed?(I will be getting a 3 SE also.
Thanks.

jeffh

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #15 on: 6 Mar 2011, 03:41 am »

Good to see you back. As to the soldering station, go to www.circuitspecialist.com ...

Ray Bronk

Correct link    www.circuitspecialists.com

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #16 on: 6 Mar 2011, 12:04 pm »
Correct link    www.circuitspecialists.com

Thanks Jeff for the correction.

Ray Bronk

guest1632

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Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #17 on: 6 Mar 2011, 12:13 pm »
Hi Mattt,

Good to see you back. As to the soldering station, go to www.circuitspecialist.com and in there columns for soldering stations get the one which is for soldering leadless solder. I'll try to look it up, and send you a PM. Nothing against Weller, but they are overpriced. The reason I chose this particular unit is that the hand grip to solder tip is closer/shorter  than the standard iron. Now for you, this may not be a big thing. But for me, it is almost as if I were actually putting my hand on the tip and placing it on the solder point.

As to the Beacon 3, well, a bit envious, but I'm glad. I don't think between the SAS versus the NS, you would have made a bad choice either way, especially now I know what amp you ar using.

Hmmm, so what is this gonna run you? Ok, being nosy. So what made you ultimately choose Blair as opposed to AVA? Just curious. Well, PM me or write me here, that's up to you. Talk to you later.

 Ray Bronk


Hi Again, ok, so here's the soldering station.

Thanks to Jeff for the slight correction, go to www.circuitspecialists.com

and under soldering stations, get the Soldering Station for Lead Free Solder (CSI-2901)
Part Number: CSI-2901
Price: $49.00

They also have the digital one for ten bucks more. the tips are about $10 each. I'd probably get a few or at least one spare.

Sorry Blair to hijack the thread slightly. The soldering station has served me well. I haven't lately used it, although I have a rewiring of my church's sound system to do. So it will indeed get a lot of use.

Again, ttyl.

Ray Bronk

gooberdude

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #18 on: 6 Mar 2011, 10:02 pm »
I bought the DH Labs copper rca's for the Beacon III, and a set for my NS-15 amp as well.  Ordered everything from partsconnexion.

A while back I bought a Tranquility DAC, and had a long conversation with Eric Hider at DB Labs about the design. That crew of audionuts has been testing individual parts in circuits for some time, and they found the DH labs to sound the best in their circuits....the copper Vampire's were the previous favorite. The % copper content in the DH labs might be more than other cu rca's.

They cost the same as cryo'd Vampires, and are made in the USA. win-win

Thanks for the info Ray.  Your description of being able to 'feel' the tip much better is a great sales point.  I'd much rather use an Exacto knife than a butcher's cleaver anyday!  Seems like the lead free solder has advanced soldering station designs, and the good ones don't cost much $. 

dangerbird

Re: Beacon Three Amplifier Upgrades
« Reply #19 on: 6 Mar 2011, 11:19 pm »
Thanks for the reply--I too have been using the Vampire RCA's,,I'll take a peek @ DH Labs.