VPI 19 Jr. upgrade

rcag_ils · « **on:** 23 Feb 2011, 09:27 pm »

Does anyone still upgrade the 19 Jr. these days?

There are conflicting info out there, Elusivedisc said the new isolators only fit MK 1-4 and will not fit the Jr.

VPI website seem to say that the new isolators will fit all HW19. and they still have the steel plinth chassis, but no armboard.

I can probably wait for some used MK-4 springs and chassis to show up, but would I need the separate plinth and armboard.

sturgus · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 03:22 am »

A good upgrade for the JR. is a MK3 Platter or MK4 platter and bearing. Maybe SteveK can comment since he has had both of the platter upgrades. He started out with the stock platter on his JR. and went to the MK 3 and it was a very nice improvement. I have yet to hear the MK4 on his table but I know it made a big difference on my HW19. I think Steve will be selling his MK3 platter if you are interested.
Sturgus

BPoletti · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 03:39 am »

I agree. A platter upgrade from a Jr. to a 3 is a big step up in performance. Going to a 4 platter / spindle / bearing takes the table to a completely different level. An armboard for a 3 is just a piece of 1/2" black acrylic. Easy to do yourself. If you go with a 4 platter, you will need a 1" think piece of acrylic. Check your arm to see if it will fit a board that think.

While you're considering upgrading the table, don't forget the arm and cartridge. A Jelco SA-750D is a very good arm. That it's as inexpensive as it is just makes it that much better. An Audio Technica AT-OC9ML is a great match for the arm and table if you have a phono preamp that will handle it.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 04:04 am »

I have a HW-19 Jr and of course the upgrade to MkIII platter is mandatory. I'm pretty sure you can't go to MkIV without a plinth upgrade, it's possible that the Delrin washer will be enough, but I seem to remember that it won't fit on the MDF plinth. The go to upgrade lately is the Scout platter with the inverted bearing, I haven't tried it yet, I'm told it will fit using the washer. Another must is replacing the crappy feet with cones or some other solution. I use Tenderfeet because they were cheap and came with the goofy thread size Harry picked for the feet bolts, but that simple mod took the table to new levels of clarity. Another upgrade is the SAMA motor assembly, either factory or homemade. A tweak I haven't tried personally, but my next upgrade will be between that and the following suggestion. Which is the SDS drive, I've been lusting after this but won't spend for it until I have completely disposable funds which don't get pulled into new speakers or preamps or DACs or the next stupid thing I absolutely must have. Finally, the cheapest and best tweak, a new belt. I couldn't believe how much dynamic drive and pitch stability I was missing out on using an older, but seemingly perfectly serviceable belt. Best of luck with whatever direction you go to.

sturgus · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 04:45 am »

I think you can use the MK4 Platter with the JR. Plinth. I think the early MK4 platters with the 3 hole mount were a direct replacement. Later ones had a slightly larger bearing housing and you would have to enlarge the hole a bit. I think there was a Stereophile review on a JR. using an MK4 TNT platter that said this combo was quite nice. The biggest problem with the MK4 platter is the height of the platter. Some arms may need a spacer to raise them to a working height. Maybe SteveK will chime in and let us know how his new platter is working. I also think the Jelco 750 looks like a nice arm. I have the AQ PT9 which is a straight version with fixed head shell that I like very much but would like to try a 750 so I can swap out cartridges. The AT-OC9 is a very nice cartridge very open and detailed. My next upgrade will be the SDS and a DIY SAMA.
Sturgus

BPoletti · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 05:13 am »

The Mk4 TNT platter / spindle / bearing requires a 1 1/4" hole in the plinth. I don't think the original Mk4 TNT platter (Super Platter) is available any longer since it was lead-filled. I have one in a custom acrylic plinth that doesn't suck. If you can find one, it will make a very nice table out of either the Jr. or using a custom plinth of your own.

@sturgus: One of these days maybe we can work out that you travel a couple of miles south for a bit of listening.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 02:53 pm »

The guy that I bought the 19 Jr from will send along a HW-4 platter, but he said he didn't have the bearing, not sure if it is a older MK-4 platter or super platter, I wouldn't know the difference.

I'll have to see what's in the box.

steve k · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 05:05 pm »

Sorry but I just caught up with this thread. I agree, the MKIII platter was a big upgrade from the stock Jr. platter. The backgrounds were blacker and the bass tighter. I bought a TNT 3.3 platter and bearing which is 28mm in diameter. I'm having a friend drill out my Jr. plinth to get the new bearing to fit. Haven't gotten it back yet to hear the difference. I think I have enough vertical rise on my Rega arm to accommodate the thicker platter but I'll need a higher dust cover. I think VPI still sells these but I'll probably get one made for less. My MKIII platter and springs are on Audiogon http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1303606306&/VPI-mkiii-Platter--bearing-and if you're interested.

The SDS was a substantial upgrade in sound also. It eliminates a lot of distortion due to speed variations and makes the image and sound more focused. It is a big improvement over the older VPI PLC line conditioner.

steve

rcag_ils · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 06:11 pm »

Is the MK III bearing and platter a drop in replacement for the Jr? Jr doesn't have the separate plinth/armboard, so how is it going to work?

VPI also selling the scout bearing and platter as an upgrade for the 19 Jr, so I have more option now.

Also does anyone know the new VPI isolators, do they fit between the chassis and plinth to replace the springs, or are they just isolator feet?

Steve, could you put a heavier platter on your 19 Jr without the stronger springs?

steve k · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 06:31 pm »

The MKIII bearing is the same diameter as the stock Jr. bearing so the fit is identical. I don't have spring suspension on my Jr. I have the sorbothane pucks. The spring suspension won't fit with the stock 1" MDO plinth.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 06:39 pm »

Quote

The spring suspension won't fit with the stock 1" MDO plinth.

I thought the springs kit that you are selling came off the 19 Jr. am I missing something?

steve k · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Feb 2011, 07:05 pm »

The springs are part of the MKIII upgrade but they support the MKIII pliinth which is the composite plinth and thinner than the Jr. plinth. I never bought the plinth, just the platter/bearing and the springs came with it.

sturgus · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 12:02 am »

Bill, I will have to take you up on your offer. The problem is I work the weekends. Maybe by spring we can hook up for a session.
Sturgus

rcag_ils · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 01:44 am »

From my research, VPI still have the steel/arylic plinth, but all in one piece, no separate armboard, VPI will drill the plinth for you, if you change tonearm in the future, you'll have to buy the other whole plinth and drill again.

For platter, you can use the Scout platter/bearing as a MK III upgrade. I think they still have the MK-4 super platter for $700.

For springs, I don't really know, VPI sells the new isolators, I don't know what they are, it would be nice if they are the springs replacement, and not the feet for the chassis. Does anyone knows?

orthobiz · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 02:06 am »

The isolators are spring replacements, screw into four corners if the plinth. I can dig up a picture...

Paul

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 04:04 am »

Quote from: sturgus on 24 Feb 2011, 04:45 am

I think the early MK4 platters with the 3 hole mount were a direct replacement. Later ones had a slightly larger bearing housing and you would have to enlarge the hole a bit.

The biggest problem with the MK4 platter is the height of the platter. Some arms may need a spacer to raise them to a working height.

That was the problem I was trying to recall, thanks sturgus. I was pretty sure the MkIV wasn't a drop in for the Jr, but couldn't remember the specific issue. Good catch.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 10:40 am »

Quote

I think the early MK4 platters with the 3 hole mount were a direct replacement. Later ones had a slightly larger bearing housing and you would have to enlarge the hole a bit.

The biggest problem with the MK4 platter is the height of the platter. Some arms may need a spacer to raise them to a working height.

I am not sure what the difference between an early MK4 and MK3 platters are, but the later MK4 platter is a TNT platter.

BPoletti · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Feb 2011, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 25 Feb 2011, 10:40 am

I am not sure what the difference between an early MK4 and MK3 platters are, but the later MK4 platter is a TNT platter.

The Mk3 platter is a one-inch vinyl platter with some lead and cork embedded in it. IIRC, it weighs about 7 pounds. The HW-19 Mk3 is a very good table. With the right arm and cartridge combination, it will delivery all the performance most people would ever want. (The right arm / cartridge combination is a matter of taste and electronics capabilities.)

The Mk4 platter is 1 1/2" thick, vinyl and a LOT of lead. Weighs 20 - 27 pounds depending on which one is (was) used. Some upgrades were fortunate enough to include the TNT super platter, maybe the best they ever created. The bearing and spindle on the 4 is much beefier and robust. The HW-19 Mk4, with a few mods to the suspension, is a table that's very hard to better.

The thickness of the platter is the reason why a different armboard is almost always necessary. The thick armboard is easy to fabricate out of a 1" thick sheet of acrylic, but the arm must be able to attach to a board that thick.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 12:04 am »

OK, it's here. It's a beautiful, beautiful piece with a walnut chassis. It was shipped with the platter bearing in the bearing well,

, I thought he would have known better. However in the instruction, it never mentioned to unwrap the platter and install it in the bearing, so maybe it was shipped this way originally.

An unmolested original piece, no scratch, clean, clear dust cover, shipped in the original box, look too good to be taken apart and to be upgraded. According to the original documentation, it was made and sold in 1999.

sturgus · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 12:16 am »

Hey you need to post pic's. My 19 also has a walnut base I like it better than the standard oak. I am thinking about a DIY SAMA when I get time. I made one once before and it worked rather nicely. Over at AK there is a thread that deals with mods to the JR. He has many pic's and it looks like it turned out very nice. I hope this link works.
Sturgus

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=343619&highlight=vpi+sama