Squeezebox Touch vs Mac Mini

jtwrace · « **Reply #20 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:07 pm »

My 2009 Mini beat my SB by a long shot. The mini was bone stock with the least amout of RAM and NO SSD. There is absolutely no comparison IMO.

Yes, you can use the Mini while music is playing...yes, it will use RAM and it's not best for critical listening but you can do it if you just want some music while surfing. Get a MB Air or iPad and you'll be much happier as you'll want the iPad as your remote anyway.

I'll never have a SB again and it's still pretty hard to think of not using the Mini even though there is so much talk about the performace of the Alix. The itunes user interface is just really hard to beat imo. Throw in Amarra, Pure Music and Fidelia (which I own all) and you'll be very happy.

mr_bill · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:13 pm »

JT,
What dac are you using with your Mac Mini and how are you connecting to your dac?

jtwrace · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: mr_bill on 26 Feb 2011, 05:13 pm

JT,
What dac are you using with your Mac Mini and how are you connecting to your dac?

USB

Philistine · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:19 pm »

I'm currently using a Touch as a temporary fix while deciding on the next DAC step - I've not yet tried the software mods but do use a linear PSU. I enjoy the Touch and consider it to be phenomenal value and the best product out of the Squeezebox/Logitech stable. The mini clearly is a front runner as the feed to a new DAC and, while searching the MacRumors forum, the recommendation is not to buy as updates are expected soon:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

My take from this is that updates are 'tweaks' to the existing design - it only came out last year. Which means that future deals will be available from the Apple Refurb store and/or upgraded Mini's with more 'bang for the buck' could be just around the corner?

lcrim · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:24 pm »

Storage and playback of music files on a dedicated pc should be part of the the planning for hard drive based playback. I use a aging Dell laptop that runs SqueezeBox Server and has the music storage in a laundry room away from the listening environment. I run everything on wired ethernet.
The Vortex Box software is a free, linux based alternative that is far more efficient in its use of resources.
It also has a SqueezeBox Server iteration and the ripping ability plus its own playback mode separate from SqueezeBox Server.

I have to add as a Squeezebox enthusiast that there is an emotionally held reaction here that is just that, the comparison here was not a fair comparison by any stretch. The quality of playback from the Touch when given a level playing field vs any other method is very high.

Nick77 · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:31 pm »

Quote

My 2009 Mini beat my SB by a long shot. The mini was bone stock with the least amout of RAM and NO SSD. There is absolutely no comparison IMO.

What kind of PS was powering the Touch? Any mods?

jtwrace · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 05:41 pm »

Quote from: Nick77 on 26 Feb 2011, 05:31 pm

What kind of PS was powering the Touch? Any mods?

I had a linear supply.

stlblue · « **Reply #27 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 10:30 pm »

Great topic. I have a Touch & have considered a mac mini. Is there a diagram/drawing/picture somewhere to get a visual of how a system would work w/ it, in lieu of the Touch/

jtwrace · « **Reply #28 on:** 26 Feb 2011, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: stlblue on 26 Feb 2011, 10:30 pm

Great topic. I have a Touch & have considered a mac mini. Is there a diagram/drawing/picture somewhere to get a visual of how a system would work w/ it, in lieu of the Touch/

See my above post and this one. This is my iPad in front of my T.V. Same thing...

stlblue · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 05:15 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 26 Feb 2011, 10:41 pm

See my above post and this one. This is my iPad in front of my T.V. Same thing...

Thanks. So if I used an iPad, iPod Touch, or IPhone, would I still need a monitor? How much do Mac Mini's go for now? Just thinking how I could go the lowest cost initially and then add on if I care to later. Most appreciated.

NekoAudio · « **Reply #30 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 07:05 am »

Quote from: stlblue on 27 Feb 2011, 05:15 am

Thanks. So if I used an iPad, iPod Touch, or IPhone, would I still need a monitor? How much do Mac Mini's go for now? Just thinking how I could go the lowest cost initially and then add on if I care to later. Most appreciated.

You'll at least need a monitor to set up your Mac Mini in the first place. But after that, you could go headless and control everything from your remote (e.g. iOS device). But if you ever needed to change configurations or something, you'd need to hook up a display again.

A brand new Mac Mini MSRP is $700.

Turnandcough · « **Reply #31 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 02:03 pm »

Unless you leave it there permanently each time you want to add/remove music to your drive you'll need to hook up the monitor. That's what I like about the PC/Touch setup - all the noisy/ugly hardware is out of sight in another room.
Presently this is what's keeping me from swapping my Touch for a Mini. I suppose the Mini streaming to a wireless DAC like the Arcam r-DAC would be another solution but I doubt it can match my EE soundwise.

stlblue · « **Reply #32 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 06:51 pm »

I've read (Stereophile article, I think?) that it might be possible to use the Touch's USB to feed into a DAC. Has anyone heard this and if so, how did it compare to a Mac Mini?

konut · « **Reply #33 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 10:05 pm »

Quote from: stlblue on 27 Feb 2011, 06:51 pm

I've read (Stereophile article, I think?) that it might be possible to use the Touch's USB to feed into a DAC. Has anyone heard this and if so, how did it compare to a Mac Mini?

Yes, this can be done, but you have to have just the right USB DAC.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110

As you will see, it requires an intimate knowledge of how to modify the software inside the Touch.

A different approach is a technique for optimizing the software inside the Touch for use with an external DAC using the S/PDIF output.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742

This technique seems less difficult for those not as well versed in programing.
I do not own a Touch or a Mac Mini, but try to keep up on the latest info so I can act when my SB3 craps out.

lcrim · « **Reply #34 on:** 27 Feb 2011, 11:55 pm »

It doesn't provide clarity on the subject of how to get into pc audio by jumping into the usual peculiarly American method of "mine's bigger than yours."
It is impossible to compare one format of playback to another based on individual opinions of what sounds better. The way in which network players like the SqueezeBox Touch are configured affects the quality of playback dramatically. In this thread, the comparison doesn't include any of that critical setup information. The relative costs involved are also a murky matter.
Network configuration and setup seems to scare many users off. Its clear to me anyway that home networking and internet connectivity are the entertainment channels of the here and now, not to wait for the future.
Clear, useful answers are of higher value than this competition of opinions as to what sounds better.

Phil · « **Reply #35 on:** 28 Feb 2011, 12:00 am »

From my own experience, the Touch doesn't become an excellent source until it is used wired (ethernet). Then, a linear supply helps. Add the software mods (all reversible), and the Touch is very good. While it seems weird to use a Touch (touch screen) and then turn off the screen via software, I found that this mod in particular is needed to get the HF right.

I'm curious what Bolder mods would add.....

konut · « **Reply #36 on:** 28 Feb 2011, 01:14 am »

Quote from: Turnandcough on 18 Feb 2011, 05:46 pm

Just wondering - how would a Squeezebox Touch(modded or not) using a decent linear power supply fare against a Mac Mini with modded PS?

Let’s say both were using the same DAC (Eastern Electric for example) and the Mac was connected to an AudioPhileo 2 or other similarly priced USB-S/PDIF converter.

I quote the OP to dramatize the futility of trying to discern an answer. The odds of someone having the exact setups for direct comparison are vanishingly small given the myriad of permutations of both the Touch configurations and Mac Mini derivations, much less the specific DAC asked about. Who is to say that the Touch configured in exactly the right way paired with a synergistically compatible DAC would equal, or surpass, a Mac Mini stock, or tweaked to X degree. Given the difference in price it should not logically be possible, but stranger things have happed. Its fun to think about though. Hoping that someone some day wins the lottery and has the inclination to answer these questions definitively.

BostonHighEnd · « **Reply #37 on:** 1 Mar 2011, 01:07 am »

On the issue of hooking up a monitor, after initial setup I've not needed to use a monitor. Instead, I've installed RealVNC on my Mac Mini and work on it remotely from a laptop. In fact, I generally prefer to use the laptop (actually a small netbook), to my IPad touch as a remote since I get access to the full Amarra and Itunes UIs.

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #38 on:** 1 Mar 2011, 01:18 am »

Quote from: NekoAudio on 27 Feb 2011, 07:05 am

You'll at least need a monitor to set up your Mac Mini in the first place. But after that, you could go headless and control everything from your remote (e.g. iOS device). But if you ever needed to change configurations or something, you'd need to hook up a display again.

A brand new Mac Mini MSRP is $700.

Correct, but refurbs that look, operate, and are warranted "as new" are available from time to time for $599. The $100 saved can be spent to upgrade the RAM to 8GB (from resellers, not Apple- they want an arm and a leg for memory.) Then run a script to boot into 64 bit mode automatically, and you have a powerhouse that the Touch can't (ahem) touch.

Snow Leopard is a 64 bit OS, and while iTunes is still 32 bit, I expect that to change with the next major release.

kirch · « **Reply #39 on:** 1 Mar 2011, 01:36 pm »

Hey jtwrace - a security key/dongle? What protected software are you running just for a music system? Is that ProTools I see on the left if your monitor, or something that just resembles it?

Just curious. I wish I never saw this cursed thread. Must . . . resist . . . urge . . . to . . . tweak . . .