Amp for unifield 3

Afterimage · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 Mar 2011, 11:00 pm »

I used to have the KWA 150 and that was my main complaint as well, rolled off or recessed highs.

McTwins · « **Reply #41 on:** 14 Mar 2011, 09:23 am »

Hi

mfsoa.....

The speakers passive x-over will still work and it has nothing to with the speakers. The speakers will continue to work according to Mr Alberts great passive x-overs.

The tube amplifier will be more happier, run cooler and have more power if active x-over is used. The tube amp is a high impedance device and the tube amp can not see a passive x-over as a solid amp would see it. The tube amp don't double the power and halving the impedance and vice verca.

If active x-over is gonna be used then set the Low-pass 400-500Hz above the passive x-over and High-pass 50Hz below the passive x-over.

Example for the VR4GenIII

X-over freq between the Low and High is 150 Hz if my memory is correct.

Sattings for the active x-over
Lowpass; 350 Hz
Highpass; 100Hz

here the interferience with the active x-over won't affect the passive in the speakers.

There is no point for the tubeamp to go to 20Hz when it has no working area up to 150Hz. This only add more distortion to the tube amp. This is with all tube amps in the world.

I have myself test it with both my vons VR4SR and VR4GenIII with great result and, Yes, the tubeamps did run more cooler with active than without. There was absolutely no disadvantage to the performance of the speakers, on the opposite, It got more efficient and more power.

Well, this is not my idea but from enginners that understand it better than me. That's the way it is.

Thanks

JGlacken · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 Mar 2011, 11:33 pm »

How would the big Jolida monos work with the 3s?

Jeff

Afterimage · « **Reply #43 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 03:00 am »

It was mentioned at the top of the thread that the Luxman L-507u is a great match for the Unified 3s. I guess it sounded good at the Lone Star Audio Fest too. I have been researching it and I think I am going to bring this integrated into my system. I still have the Aspen Maya on the way, should be here any day now. So I will compare the two and the best one stays. As for the other one, it will just go in my second system so no loss and no big deal. I just gave my brother in law the integrated that was in the second system so I will need to put something there. Anyway, looking forward to spending time comparing a setup with separates (Herron preamp and Aspen Maya amp) against the Luxman Integrated with the Unified 3s.

hundredwaters · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 May 2011, 01:54 pm »

Afterimage - I had hoped to private message you, but there doesnt seem to be an option for this (this is my first post) nor can I search your prior posts???

Anyway - your list of past speakers is remarkably similar to my list of interest to put a stereo in the bedroom for listening and to spice up the flat screen a little. Thus - I was curious why you moved on from several brands and models - namely the Mark and Daniels, Amphion, and Green Mountain lines. I was thinking of all three for monitor-sized speakers, especially the Rio. I had come across these posts as I was trying to investigate the Unifield 1 and 2, although likely they are out of my price range. Due to the circumstance, Im not sure any of these options work as the speakers have to be fairly close to the wall - thus I may be limited to the Guru QM 10's, the Clue speaker, or something like either the B&W FPM series, the PMC Wafer series, or the Vienna A. wallmounts (forget the name). Any opinions on any of the above. Why did you move on from Mark and Daniels, Amphion, and Green Mountain lines (assuming you did)?

thanks

HW

Quote from: Afterimage on 26 Feb 2011, 01:01 pm

Just for reference, here is a list of speakers I have owned since starting in the hobby in 1993. Actually, I first was bitten by the stereo bug in 1981 as a 14 year old. At the time, most of my friends had older brothers and a lot of them had stereo's in their basements, kind of like the 70s show. One day one of my friends brother dropped Asia's "Heat of the Moment" (don't laugh, the song was cool to us at the time, actually I still like it but don't tell anyone :)). I can't remember the system, I think the were Klipsch Horns. He cranked it up. I was in awe. From that point on, I became interested in stereos. Problem was, never had any money. Fast forward to 1993 when I had a job and some money and I bought a pair of Bose 401s. Since then I have owned...

Paradigm 11SE MK III
New Form Research 645 R
Dali Euphonia MS4s
AAD E48s-these were only 650.00, I wish I still them!
Green Mountain Audio Europa
VSA VR-1s
Green Mountain Audio Callisto
Amphion Xenon's
Monitor Audio GS 60s
Mark and Daniel Rubies
WLM La Scala
Tidal Piano (freaking expensive)
Fritz Carbon 7s (I'm keeping these no matter what)

I have two systems running so the list is not from switching everything on one system.
As you can see I had some decent speakers. I confess I did not always do my homework and am guilty of swapping gear without taking time and care of the other stuff that effects sound. For instance room acoustics. I do have some panels and base traps in the corner, but I have to drill down some more to optimize everything. Once I get the Unified 3s up and running that will be next project, the room. So, has anyone heard anything from my list that can verify if the Unifield 3s may be a step up with all things being equal (gear room ect...)?

Afterimage · « **Reply #45 on:** 20 May 2011, 05:59 pm »

Hi HW. As to why I changed a lot? Well, hard to answer. It is mainly because I always thought there might be something better or a sound I prefered more. At times I did not make the best choices for amplification and system matching. In the end, with the right gear, all the speakers I have tried I could live with. I was, and still am kind of just a junkie with this hobby. I'd had to chose from the list above I'd say the 3 best are the Fritz Carbon 7s, The WLM La Scala's (I still have these) and of course the Unifield 3s. In the end, I had to pay a price for learning what I did not know. I'm pretty sure I am done with speakers and everything else for awhile. Been a fun journey but time to settle in. As far as amps for the Unifield 3 I have tried a Sim Audio W3, Aspen Maya, Luxman 507u, and a Digital Audio Company Cherry Plus amp. All sound great with UNI 3. I felt the Luxman was good with the UNI 3s , but it was an even better match with the WLM's so I moved it.

BigSwede · « **Reply #46 on:** 26 May 2011, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: hundredwaters on 18 May 2011, 01:54 pm

Afterimage - I had hoped to private message you, but there doesnt seem to be an option for this (this is my first post)

I am not well versed in this website, but it looks like you click on the little quote balloon under their moniker for a PM...

es347 · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 May 2011, 12:22 am »

Or click on the poster's name and select send personal message..

scb · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 May 2011, 01:25 am »

loving the unifield 3 powered by 4 channels of my arcam p7. audio magic sorcerer liquid air speaker cables. Mark Knopfler's "what it is" currently playing.

es347 · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 May 2011, 01:43 am »

Great song...here's my favorite Knopfler solo....great sonics so turn it up baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjJzlIedCuo

scb · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 May 2011, 02:01 am »

oh yeah, telegraph road is always great. thanks for the link

scb · « **Reply #51 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 10:27 pm »

Clarence's Jungleland solo from Hammersmith Odeon '75 is now playing through the Unifield 3...

thebearded1 · « **Reply #52 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 05:01 pm »

I recently purchased an active crossover (men220) for my biamped vas unifield 3s. Where should I set the crossover? Thanks to anyone who can help here.

JackD201 · « **Reply #53 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 02:27 am »

That is definitely a tough one bearded1. Personally, I'd run the MT module with the 275 full range and the Bass module with the 252 full range as well. That way you still get the use of the XO points and slopes that make the U3 what it is.

If you're looking to add headroom for the 275/MT, try a steep cut off at 60Hz or so. That should be low enough not to interfere with the natural roll off of the MT module. The bass module is the tricky part. You can't set it from the resulting output of that setting. You'll have a notch. To use the bass modules passive xo's numbers, as designed, you'd have to cross it over, I'm guessing, above 100Hz. I don't know if your active crossover unit can do this kind of broad overlap with sharp knees.

I own a Lyngdorf RP-1, and I believe the MEN220 uses licensed RP technology. I haven't played with the 2+2 yet so I can't be sure. The RP-1 manual is rather bare when it comes to 2+2. If you could provide me with a link to the MEN220 manual, I could take a look at it for you.

McTwins · « **Reply #54 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 08:54 am »

Quote from: thebearded1 on 2 Sep 2011, 05:01 pm

I recently purchased an active crossover (men220) for my biamped vas unifield 3s. Where should I set the crossover? Thanks to anyone who can help here.

I am still confused if you really can bi-amp or not with the uni3..

I don't understand this for the Unifield specs for the crossover;
"Global Axis Integration Network (our proprietary design that eliminates "beaming") set at 100 Hz and 8 kHz (trailing slope @ -6dB, 300Hz/4kHz overlap)."

It is little bit differen't for the VR4SR and VR4GenIII.

I belive that you can't bi-amp those speakers if you ask me. Off course your tube amp is getting hot because you are not running your tube in fullrange. Many on the forums really don't understand how a true bi-amp is supposed to work!

If you ask me, true bi-amping is when you don't have any passive x-over. But, if you want to to bi-amp a loudspeaker with a passive x-over you still need a active x-over to help the amplifier to work properly.

Either you sell your MEN220 and run the speakers in fullrange bi-wired or change your speakers and use the MEN220 with another speakers witch can be bi-amped.

Sorry to say that, but, it dosen't say or mention that you can bi-amp those speakers so I don't understand why you want to bi-amp??

Thanks

McTwins · « **Reply #55 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 08:55 am »

Quote from: JackD201 on 3 Sep 2011, 02:27 am

That is definitely a tough one bearded1. Personally, I'd run the MT module with the 275 full range and the Bass module with the 252 full range as well. That way you still get the use of the XO points and slopes that make the U3 what it is.

If you're looking to add headroom for the 275/MT, try a steep cut off at 60Hz or so.

This is totally wrong approch to do, run the amplifier in fullrange when bi-amping a passive loudspeaker. This is not good for the tube amp!

Why 60Hz?

JackD201 · « **Reply #56 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 09:26 am »

You gotta look at it within the context of the specific speaker in question McTwins.

It's not an approach I would recommend for other VRs but the Unifield 3 in particular is designed to have the mid driven full range. I'm guessing the mechanical roll off of the driver is around 70Hz on the low end but could be as high as 100Hz. My guess is that the mid rolls off in the area of 16kHz up top. Cutting off the signal to the MC275 at 60Hz means you get the power savings but also get to run the driver within the range they were designed to run at. It's a safe starting point considering we don't know the slopes applied between modules. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the MC275 isn't sweating dealing with the little 4.5 incher and the ribbon at all, I don't see why NOT running the MC275 full range should be a bad thing either. It's not as though the head units are a tough load. They're 8ohms with hardly any impedance dips. Many DIYers are running Fostex and RAALs with as little as 3wpc from 2a3 DHTs.

Now supposing that the bearded1 just wants tube flavor up top and ss punch down below. Who's to say he can't do that if he wants to? You did. I do too. It's just my opinion that it can be done without mucking up the original design but crossing drivers over where they shouldn't. The question is whether the 2+2 function of the MEN220 will allow it. I know a DEQX can as each output can be configured independently of the others. Not so sure with the MEN220.

Oh and yes I know how to set up active systems. I've been setting up pro stacks for sound reinforcement since I was 16. I'm 41 now.

Now if the 275 is running hot, the answer is actually more obvious. Take a look at bearded1's system pics/avatar. They are set in cabinetry and have very little ventilation. Typically you want at least 4" all around.

McTwins · « **Reply #57 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 09:46 am »

Quote from: JackD201 on 3 Sep 2011, 09:26 am

You gotta look at it within the context of the specific speaker in question McTwins.

It's not an approach I would recommend for other VRs but the Unifield 3 in particular is designed to have the mid driven full range. I'm guessing the mechanical roll off of the driver is around 70Hz on the low end but could be as high as 100Hz. My guess is that the mid rolls off in the area of 16kHz up top. Cutting off the signal to the MC275 at 60Hz means you get the power savings but also get to run the driver within the range they were designed to run at. It's a safe starting point considering we don't know the slopes applied between modules. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the MC275 isn't sweating dealing with the little 4.5 incher and the ribbon at all, I don't see why NOT running the MC275 full range should be a bad thing either. It's not as though the head units are a tough load. They're 8ohms with hardly any impedance dips. Many DIYers are running Fostex and RAALs with as little as 3wpc from 2a3 DHTs.

Now supposing that the bearded1 just wants tube flavor up top and ss punch down below. Who's to say he can't do that if he wants to? You did. I do too. It's just my opinion that it can be done without mucking up the original design but crossing drivers over where they shouldn't. The question is whether the 2+2 function of the MEN220 will allow it. I know a DEQX can as each output can be configured independently of the others. Not so sure with the MEN220.

Oh and yes I know how to set up active systems. I've been setting up pro stacks for sound reinforcement since I was 16. I'm 41 now.

Now if the 275 is running hot, the answer is actually more obvious. Take a look at bearded1's system pics/avatar. They are set in cabinetry and have very little ventilation. Typically you want at least 4" all around.

I folow you, but as you say there is to many questions rather then answers. So one can't really say or recommend wich crossover slopes you can use to answer his or her questions. Only Mr Albert himself can. I belive that Albert can agree with me when saying that this speaker is not for use for bi-amp.

Why bi-amp if the speaker isn't made for bi-amp, thats all.

Thanks

thebearded1 · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 01:19 pm »

Thank you for your reply. As the top module is actually full range, my thought was to run this full...setting at 60hz also seems to make sense as has been suggested. I purchased the men220 for it's room correction as I have a square 13x14 room which presents challenges...the crossover for the bass module seems easier as I just set it high for power savings....the men220 allows me to balance volume between the 2 amps as well...I have not experimented as of yet but I imagine this will be helpful. Thank you again.

JackD201 · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Sep 2011, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: McTwins on 3 Sep 2011, 09:46 am

I folow you, but as you say there is to many questions rather then answers. So one can't really say or recommend wich crossover slopes you can use to answer his or her questions. Only Mr Albert himself can. I belive that Albert can agree with me when saying that this speaker is not for use for bi-amp.

Why bi-amp if the speaker isn't made for bi-amp, thats all.

Thanks

Well, you make a lot of good points McTwins and you are right, only Albert can give the right answers here. I'm just pretty sure none of bearded1's experiments pose any big danger that can't be immediately corrected with a few clicks or some quick re-cabling.

On the bright side of things, the Room Perfect architecture is very transparent and really works if you take the time to take as many calibration snapshots as possible.