RPTV replacement time? Maybe - but what to get??

byteme · « **on:** 22 Mar 2004, 04:53 pm »

It may be time to replace our Toshiba TN50X81 "HD ready" RPTV. There is more HD programming out there, so our 4:3 set is looking pretty old - over 4 years in fact. I've heard so much about LCOS, DLP RPTV and have even considered going with a front projector and screen, however, in our room that might not work so well. Flat panel is pretty much out based on price and size desires.

So my question is, what is the defacto (ya right) best thing out there for $3k-ish range and 55" plus? I could probably get away with a 65" set in the space but that might be overkill. Right now the 50" 4:3 gives about 44" diagonal in 16:9. We sit about 8ft away from the screen. Is this the time to jump or are bigger better things on the horizon - I know they are but... I realize there is a ton of buzz about the new technologies but I've still not really seen much look better than a well calibrated Pioneer Elite or higher end Mits RPTV. So, what do you think, is RPTV still the best potential picture or is there something else out there to best it and rival the price points?

Thanks.

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 05:04 pm »

I've always heard Pioneers are great... they look nice in person... but, I've never owned one... I almost did though.. Time Warner was offering something like $500 back if you bought a Pioneer HD TV and subscribed to HD channels. You got a discount on the programming as well.

However, IIRC you don't have cable as an option... so, maybe there's some funky deal like this with one of the dish companies.... ?

bubba966 · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 05:05 pm »

I was going to mention a Pioneer, but Carl already beat me to it...

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 05:52 pm »

I am consistently hearing that Hitachi (yes, I said Hitachi

) makes the best set in terms of color accuracy and overall picture.

I would probably go over to AVS Forum and check out what people have to say.

George

Double Ugly · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 05:55 pm »

I was confronted with a similar dilemma not too long ago, but was upgrading from a 17-year old 27" Magnavox console, if you can imagine that. It still has a great picture, but I was definitely ready for more.

I'd held off getting anything new because of the associated costs, lack of HD programming availability and the poor PQ I'd seen on HD sets when displaying SD channels. I bit the bullet after reading reviews of the Samsung HLN567, a 56" DLP, It has the best PQ on SD programming that I've ever seen, HD set or otherwise. Nathan Loyer of Eighth Nerve saw it and said he’d never seen a SD picture so clearly displayed.

I'm not sure what they're going for now, but you should be able to find one at or about the $3k price point. If you’re interested, send me a PM and I’ll give you the name of the guy who sold me mine for $500 less than I could find anywhere on the ’net.

DU

arthur · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 06:20 pm »

for 2k you can purchase a Panasonic or Sanyo projector that will give you a very nice 100" HD image without compromising your sound stage or cluttering your room. The image will be good enough even if you have some light in the room - but yes you won't be able to watch anything in the daytime if for some reason you refuse to close your curtains.

if you must watch just regular tv during the day (maybe as background as some people have it), than you can put a small set elsewhere in the house/apt.

i personally purchased a $1k projector which i refused to permanently mount since the 10min set up time (hanging the screen and placing the projector on a coffee table) saves me from the tv addiction. now all i watch is dvd's instead of wasting huge chuncks out of my life by watching crap just because 'nothing else is on'

once you make the step into FP you'll probably never turn back and will probably never understand why anyone would spend so much more to get so much less.

best of luck

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: zybar

I am consistently hearing that Hitachi (yes, I said Hitachi ) makes the best set in terms of color accuracy and overall picture.

I would probably go over to AVS Forum and check out what people have to say.

George

I used to sell Hitachi Ultravision sets to people who wanted something that looked great and lasted a long time. I have customers still using sets I sold 8 years ago.

However, what you'll find is TV's are like speakers.. Hitachi's have a 'look' to them... so do Sony's and Toshiba's. I like some and not others. I was always in-between about Hitachi. I preferred the look of the Sony's and didn't like the look of Toshiba's.

Every time I've seen a Pioneer, it's looked very good. Same with Sony. However, I see Samsung's every once in a while that have an exceptionally good picture. I don't know much about Samsung, though. Is it just more cheap Chinese electronics with fair quality control? I don't know. That's the only reason I couldn't buy one. Instead I bought a Sony with cheap Chinese electronics with fair QC.

The main reason I bought the Sony (41") was so I could have a rack/stand under it that matched and looked nice... and put the TV at the right height for viewing.... etc...

(off topic rant) I don't understand why every RPTV doesn't come with a rack in the bottom and / or some place to put a center channel. They make it ridiculously tough to integrate gear and speakers and they don't have to. The crappiest looking TV's had this feature... why not the good ones? (rant over)

So, as with speakers, go take a look at them. Take a DVD and see if you can play it through a few. You may be able to... you may not. But, experiencing these things is the only way.

-C

byteme · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: arthur

for 2k you can purchase a Panasonic or Sanyo projector that will give you a very nice 100" HD image without compromising your sound stage or cluttering your room. The image will be good enough even if you have some light in the room - but yes you won't be able to watch anything in the daytime if for some reason you refuse to close your curtains....

You know, I was CERTAIN that this was the direction I'd be going. I even talked 2 people into it for their HT. I was at one of their houses the other day and we watched League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. BAD movie. Picture was decent but between the fan noise and the wavey screen I thought I was gonna SCREAM. Slow pans revealed waves in the screen and the picture, in a totally dark room, just wasn't that great. In order for me to pull of FP I'd have to get a screen with tensioners on the side, it would also need to be mounted on the upward slope of a cathedral ceiling OR hung a couple feed out from the back wall on brackets. Neither would please my wife all too much! Not to mention mounting the projector - which wouldn't be that big a deal but I'd need to get a replacement pre/pro then, something that would upconvert everything to Component output so I'd only have one cable to run the 30+ feet to the back ceiling. All told, it would be cool, however, it would require an almost entire retool of how everything is set up now and probably end up costing $2k for projector, $1k for screen and then another $1k for various cables, mounting and upgrades.

byteme · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 06:48 pm »

Quote

I don't understand why every RPTV doesn't come with a rack in the bottom and / or some place to put a center channel. They make it ridiculously tough to integrate gear and speakers and they don't have to. The crappiest looking TV's had this feature... why not the good ones?

Great idea, but where would they put the guns then? The whole bottom middle is pretty much always taken up by the CRTs in my experience.

The thing I can never figure out is why the heck they bother with speakers at all. I'm sure some would bitch if they didn't but really, who's gonna get a 65 or 57" set and then just plug cable into it (OK, besides my parents). Reduce the price by a couple hundred and leave that crap off!

I also agree about the "look" like speakers have a sound. I've always been partial to Toshiba, probably because of the price/performance and could never stomach Sony for the same reason. They cost more and I always thought their picture was too damn bright no matter what you did to the settings. The best two I've ever seen are Pioneer Elite and Mits diamond or platinum. Even an older Mits that a guy I did some HT work for looked good enough that after I calibrated it for him and did the convergence, opened it up and cleaned it all I could do is say WOW when we popped in the beginggin of LOTR FOTR. I've never done that with my set - and that's what I'm looking for now. Another customer who had VERY deep pockets I said - if money is no object buy an Elite. He put it (in the store) up next to DLP, LCD and Plasma. The Elite KILLED the other sets. I've gotten three separate thank you emails from him!

gongos · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 06:59 pm »

I second the projector idea. I just bought a Panasonic PT-L500U for $1899 and it has zero fan noise. I was shocked how quiet it was. Plus, the picture quality rivals any RPTV I've seen, and the screen size can be made over 3x the size of any RPTV, and it only weighs 6.6 lbs. It might be worth retooling your room. I'm not sure what kind of cables and screen you're thinking about buying, but $1k each sounds pretty extreme. bluejeanscable.com sells long runs of component cable, which was rated a 99 by DVDetc the highest rating for any cable tested, in the $100 range. Screens can be had for way less than $1k new, or on the used market. If you spent $1k for each, you'd be tossing your money away. I previously had a Mitsubishi projector, but had to send it back because of its fan noise so I know what you're saying. I can be less than 2 feet away from my projector and the noise doesn't bother me at all. DO yourself a favor and check out the new generation projectors.

bubba966 · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Mar 2004, 05:59 am »

Quote from: byteme

Another customer who had VERY deep pockets I said - if money is no object buy an Elite. He put it (in the store) up next to DLP, LCD and Plasma. The Elite KILLED the other sets. I've gotten three separate thank you emails from him!

Exactly my experience. If you've got the $ for one, the Elite is the way to go.

I've only seen a couple regular Pioneer's, but they were damn nice as well.

Don't know if a regular Pioneer would be better than a Mits Diamond set. I'm betting that'd be very, very close.

byteme · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Mar 2004, 03:32 pm »

OK, well, after some measuring last night and some time spend on the projector sites I think it's pretty clear that a projector just will not work in this environment. I've currently got about 65"-70" between main speakers, I might be able to get another 15-20" if I got rid of our rack and bought two 3 shelf racks to put in the middle of the speakers. That still only leaves me with 80-90". Veiwing position is 12' from screen, throw would be 15'. At that length it would be pretty difficult and very expensive to get a projector that would do 96" diagonal and that would completely overwhelm the room. So, projector is out. Time to investigate 55"-61" RPTV of either CRT, DLP or other varieties.

bubba966 · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Mar 2004, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: byteme

Time to investigate 55"-61" RPTV of either CRT, DLP or other varieties.

Certainly everyone is going to have different tastes in RPTV's. But I wouldn't keep a DLP or LCD RPTV if you gave one to me. I was just looking at DLP & LCD sets from Loewe (new 55" DLP @ $7K

), Sony, Panasonic, & Samsung yesterday. I didn't like a one of them.

I'm also more than particular about what I'd live with in a display. With what's available right now, there's one CRT tube I'd buy (Loewe), maybe 2 or 3 CRT RPTV's (from Pioneer or Mits), 1 plasma I'd keep if given to me (the new Elite, though I still wouldn't buy it even if I had the $).

Someone else mentioned Hitachi. I haven't seen one in a year or so. But the last one I saw did have a damn nice pic. I wouldn't rule them out.

You should also try looking for something like a used Pro 620HD (58") or even a Pro 520HD (53"). You might be able to find one of those in the $3K range.