Opinions on most "accurate" speakers

Bill Baker · « **on:** 21 Mar 2004, 07:30 pm »

Greetings all,
As always, I am turning to the experience and opinions of Circle members.

What I am looking for is a very accurate speaker system for auditioning and experimenting various new products and modifications. I am not looking for a warm, seductive, involving system as I already have plenty of these types of speakers. I am looking for a speaker that might even be considered overly analytical and revealing by most.

I also am not looking to "pick up" the line of speakers but rather pick up a single pair to use for the purposes mentioned above. New or used is okay and if anyone has a pair in mind or in hand, I would also consider some bartering. If any other dealers here have something in mind or something they would like other's impressions on, feel free to step in.

Giving the customers I work with, I would like to set the price point no higher than $3k retail. I was considering the Usher AC-10 but these are too larger and far above the price I want to maintain as I would also be recommending this speaker (or speaker line) to those who inquire to me about a very revealing system.

Looking forward to your opinions.

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 08:22 pm »

The VMPS 626, RM30, or RM40 would work VERY well for your purposes.

If you go this route, make sure you get the FST tweeter.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 08:44 pm »

At a retail price of $2,795.00, I can't help but think the SP Technology Timepiece 2.0s might be what you're looking for.

They're accurate as evidenced by their reviews in Pro Audio Review and Enjoy The Music. They were subsequently named one of Pro Audio Review's top products of 2003.

I'd think monitors good enough for mastering in a pro audio facility should be revealing enough for what you want.

DU

Bill Baker · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 08:48 pm »

Marbles, It is interesting that you mention the VMPS as I have been looking at them the past week or so. What's more interesting is what they say about their capacitor upgrade. I am currently in the process of my own little "capacitor shootout" and actually looking to do away with the AuriCap in favor of the Theta AudioCap (which I have been using for some time) and the Sonicap in cirtain applications.

I am wondering if other VMPS owners have experimented with other capacitors outside of VMPS's recommendations and what they have found. My findings on various capacitors are starting to differ from what is the norm. Keep in mind that all my cap comparisons are mainly in coupling applications of tube amps.

Maybe a capacitor shootout is something we need here on the Circle?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 08:53 pm »

Quote

I'd think monitors good enough for mastering in a pro audio facility should be revealing enough what you want.

Agree, I have always been one who beleives that if a speakers is good enough for production of music (recording studios), why can't it be used for reproduction.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 09:02 pm »

By the way, here is a short list of what I have been considering.

Legacy monitor (the one I want is no longer available)
JM Lab Cobalt 806 or 816 (high on my list)
VMPS larger monitor

Horsehead · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 10:21 pm »

I would also recommend the SP Technology Timepieces or Continuums.

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 10:49 pm »

Quote from: Horsehead

I would also recommend the SP Technology Timepieces or Continuums.

Since you've heard both the VMPS and the SP's, and you're recommending the SP's, I can only conclude they are more transparent.

WEEZ · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:18 pm »

Bill,

Are you looking for full range, or limited range monitors?

WEEZ

Bill Baker · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:53 pm »

Quote

Are you looking for full range, or limited range monitors?

I am not too concerned about extreme lower frequencies rather looking for the most accurate presentation I can get from the system as a whole but if I can find something that offers the best of all worlds............

If it is a full range, I want the lower end to have the capabilities of tightness and accuracy (I know this will also depend on the system components). I figured a monitor would give me a very accurate yet limited response.

The reason I am not too concerned with larger stand mounts is due to the fact that you do have too drop some $$ to get an accurate full range setup. I want to invest my gingle in accuracy, not number of drivers. This is why I have turned to the circle. I know all of you will come up with options I have not yet considered.

tinear99 · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:54 pm »

Take a look at the Green Mountain Europas for $880. Very accurate, see greenmountainaudio.com. Do a search at AA or Agon for more reviews/details from users. I'm still in the proccess of breaking mine in and am amazed at these speakers.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 12:42 am »

I have heard very good things about the GM Europas but do not think they are quite what I am looking for. I would put them in a similar class with Dave's 1801s, a great sounding speaker!

I am looking for more of a "clinical" sound similar to some of the Theils, JM Labs and B&Ws I have heard. I am still leaning towards the JM Lab Cobalt as I know the Focal tweeter will show any hidden aggressiveness in many of the components I will use with them. I regret getting rid of some of the speakers I custom built years ago when Response was custom designing and building speakers. The ones I miss the most is a highly modified, custom built version of the Dynaudio Gemini with 1 1/2" cabinet and 2" solid wood baffle all wrapped in Oil finished White Ash. I built these 60 lb. "monitors" for myself and someone came along that had to have them so I sold 'em. Little did I know Dynaudio would stop making raw driver for consumers and smaller companies.

SOmebody here has put me onto a speaker that I have fallen in love with. Both design layout and looks but they are far too big and out of the price point I want to maintain.

Horsehead · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 01:00 am »

Quote from: Marbles

Quote from: Horsehead
I would also recommend the SP Technology Timepieces or Continuums.

Since you've heard both the VMPS and the SP's, and you're recommending the SP's, I can only conclude they are more transparent.

I don't necessarily think the Continuums are more transparent, I just think Bill would be in a rubber room singing Mary Had a Little Lamb if he had to keep readjusting the pots and putty on a pair of VMPS speakers since he would be changing gear quite often and evaluating modifications, etc. He would always ask himself- was the sound worse/better because the putty needs readjusting or the pots are off, etc. If he is going to be using the speakers for evaluative purposes why have three other variables to adjust for with each change?
At least in my room, the Continuums are much more dynamic and have much better bass, something I didn't realize I was missing until I hear it now.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 01:14 am »

I agree. I am not looking to add further varaibles into the equation. I will already have to deal with cables, sources and room accoustics. On the other hand, The SP Technology speakers are beyond the $3k price point anyway. I would like to go about $1.5k used for a pair of speakers or contact the manufacturer of the pair I decide upon to see if I can pick them up at dealer cost promising not to sell them for profit.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 01:37 am »

Quote from: Response Audio

On the other hand, The SP Technology speakers are beyond the $3k price point anyway. I would like to go about $1.5k used for a pair of speakers or contact the manufacturer of the pair I decide upon to see if I can pick them up at dealer cost promising not to sell them for profit.

At a retail price of $2,750, the Timepiece 2.0s are not above your stated price point. Whether or not Bob will agree to a dealer discount sufficient to bring them down to your newly stated goal, however, is another matter.

DU

WEEZ · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 01:59 am »

Bill,

Have you checked out the Merlins?

VSM uses Dynaudio tweeter/Scanspeak mid-woofer
TSM uses Morel drivers

Both are used in studios as well as high-end home audio.

I understand that Proac Studio 100's are used in nearfield mixdowns- but I have never heard these.

I have also never heard the PMC line-- but I've heard the Merlins. The Merlins are fine...

WEEZ

NealH · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 02:15 am »

Since many claim system synergy is of utmost importance when assembing an audio system, my recommendation is to pick a couple of popular speakers that are well respected in the audio circles for the brunt of your work. Magnepan comes immediately to mind as one candidate. Thiel, Vandersteen, etc. too. But especially Magnepan.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 03:14 am »

I agree with your statement about synergy. Since this thread is about accuarte speakers, isn't the choice of the amp and cables extremely critical?
You hook those Maggies to a triode tube amp you may lack some accuracy.
If you try hooking them up with $10 speaker cable, same thing.
My vote for accuracy goes to active speakers. The amps are customized for each driver and matched by the designer using active crossovers.
And cable? What cable!

witchdoctor · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 03:21 am »

PS- Check out some reviews for Genelec, ATC, and Paradigm Active Reference speakers. Watch for deals on A'gon.
I just picked up my second set of Paradigm active 20's at A'gon, used, for $800.
That's two drivers with two internal monoblocks. Interconnects that are 20 ft. long are included in the deal along with the PC's.

Re: my previous comment I was referring to speaker cables, you still need both IC's and PC's to drive these speakers.

Sa-dono · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 04:52 am »

Quote from: witchdoctor

I agree with your statement about synergy. Since this thread is about accuarte speakers, isn't the choice of the amp and cables extremely critical?
You hook those Maggies to a triode tube amp you may lack some accuracy.
If you try hooking them up with $10 speaker cable, same thing.
My vote for accuracy goes to active speakers. The amps are customized for each driver and matched by the designer using active crossovers.
And cable? What cable!

I believe active speakers would be out of the running. If Bills wants to work with amps or integrated amps, he would not have the option with active speakers.