Neil Young- Greendale on DVD-A

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:12 am »

I just picked this one up on the way home from work tonite, haven't even got it in the player yet. Looks like the back catalog may finally be out soon, too. I'd love to have "Harvest Moon" and "Freedom" on DVD-A.

Ears · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:14 pm »

I hope it sounds better sonically than Harvest which is one of the, if not the worst hi rez recordings I have heard sonically.

Neil wanted his music released on sa-cd but the powers that be chose dvd-a.
One listen to Harvest and you will know why neal wanted sa-cd for its more analog sound.

The LP clearly sounds much better than the dvd-a.

Greg

Mathew_M · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:18 pm »

Actually the cd oddly enough played through the right equipment sounds good to my ears. I just recently listened to it with my panny xr25 and I can hear every nuance in the recording which supposedly is pretty bad because of the original tape stock used. Nonetheless it sounds analog and captures the atmosphere of the original recording venue.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:21 pm »

I've heard Neil Young repeatedly state that he feels DVD-A is sonically superior to SACD, actually. He's gone on the record numerous times saying DVD-A is what he wished CD would have been, and maybe the final format we'll ever need. No record company is dictating the decision to him- it was his choice.

I really like the DVD-A version of "Harvest". The LP & CD versions don't really sound particularly good, IMO; it just isn't the best sonically to begin with. But the music is just so damn good. Neil Young actually concieved this one as a MC recording right from the very beginning, as originally recorded for Quad. This is one case where the channel mix is just what the artist wanted in the first place.

Ears · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:28 pm »

Actually Rob....you have it ass backwards as Neil said sa-cd was his choice from the beggining in print.
And no he does NOT have control over choices such as these.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 04:54 pm »

You definately got it wrong, Ears. Google for his interview in S&V- he's been a big booster of DVD-A from Day One.

And yes, he has a say.

Ears · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 05:07 pm »

Before any of his music was done in hi rez...he said in print that he preffered sa-cd and this was talked about on a-gon and aa years ago.

When your label is Warner.....you have no choice.

It was a recording and musician rag were he was quoted as wanting his music on sa-cd rather than dvd-a.

Rob I have been involved whith hi rez for 5 years....from the beggining so what is said now has nothing to do whith what Neils preffered format [sa-cd] is /was.

I am sure Warner did not like reading this in print and I am sure that Neil prefers dvd-a over the cd format that he hated.

That being said, the fact remains that he said he preffered sa-cd for his music in print......so it is YOU that needs to do some research....not I.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 09:24 pm »

No need to get catty, Ears. I took your advice and did research it- I've got his interview in S&V sitting right next to my PC. In it he emphatically sings the praises of DVD-A and states his preference of it over SACD. Surely you've read the article & interview, haven't you? I realize S&V isn't an audiophool approved publication, but anytime Neil Young is on the cover of a stereo mag singing the praises of a format my ears perk up and I buy it.

An exact word for word quote from Mr. Young's intereview: "There's absolutely no comparison. DVD-Audio is simply the best that exists today. It's the best way you can listen to music that you can buy en masse. The mid-level of quality of a DVD-Audio disc is where the CD should have been when we went digital." The intereview and article goes on to say Young has listened to SACD but prefers DVD-A.

In the March edition of Wired he also praised the sound quality of DVD-A.

I've been been mistaken before, and occasionally I do not remember correctly (humans have that failing), but that issue is sitting on top of my computer right now. So he was lying then, he's since changed his mind, or I'm making it up. If you believe the latter, then you don't know me very well, but in any event it will be extremely easy to verify it.

I'm not sure if you're stating you personally know Neil Young or have spoken to him at length on the subject- do you have a personal pipeline to his thoughts on the subject? If he's recently reversed the opinion on the subject (at the time he did the interview, he permitted the company to film his interview), please include a link to it. It would be news to me, but then I don't know everything.

But unless he's personally told you differently, read the article. I'm not sure whether or not the mag keeps an archive of all their past issues, but I can PM you the specifics or perhaps make you a photocopy it if it's otherwise unavailable.

I'm not sure why this should be a gigantic issue aside from quibbling about a matter of public record. The important thing isn't really whether Neil Young loves DVD-A but whether you do. If you don't, that's fine. I think Harvest sounds better on DVD-A than I've ever heard it before, but YMMV.

-R-

Ears · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 10:52 pm »

Rob, I am quite familiar whith the S&V article but it reads like a dvd-a marketing article and Neil does not say he likes dvd-a better, than sa-cd but rather a third party says so.

Ice magazine had him commenting positivily on sa-cd but unless you want to suscribe, you can't read that part of the article online.

So there was the ICE magazine article, the article in the recording/musicians rag both quoting Neil on sa-cd before the S&V marketing article.

Joni Mitchell is another Warner artist that publically stated several times that she wanted her music on sa-cd but whith Warner being her label you can bet it never happened.

I like any hi rez done well in any format but Youngs Harvest is terrible on dvd-a.

Young also stated that he liked vinyl better than dvd-a I believe in ICE magazine so do not go by how you think S&V reads as it is entirely a marketing add for dvd-a and it reads as such.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:14 pm »

It's a direct word for word quote, from his own mouth. Are you implying he's being misquoted or that the journalist fabricated the interview and just used his picture? Yes, in this article a 3rd party (the one talking to Young) made the statement, but I think the "best sound there is" comment is telling. I can find no similar statement from him about SACD.

BTW, I never claimed he doesn't like LPs, and he's stated his preference over analog tape over everything else. And his disdain for CD is well known.

In the absence of anything concrete to the contrary I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I read 3 different interviews by him praising the sound of DVD-A while so far I've been unable to find any comments from him on SACD. Not that he hasn't made them, I just wish you'd link me if I'm so off base with this one.

You told me to research, so I've Googled til I'm blue in the face: I've found Young waxing poetic about DVD-A, I've found Steve Hoffman talking about Neil Youngs love of DVD-A... but nowhere have I found Young refuting his statements to that effect.

I'm not doubting your honesty, but you're not giving me anything to go on here. Just where did he reputedly make the statements you attribute to him? If you've got a better resource, please let me know.

For anyone curious enough to follow our little squabble, here's actual interview: http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/traces/pages/cdInterview.html
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I shoulda saved the other interview links, but I guess if there were found on Google once they can be found again.

Ears · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:26 pm »

Here is an ACTUAL quote from Neil....
4-11-02 USA Today

" I have gone to the highest-resolution dvd's and still prefer my music on vinyl off the analog masters"

Here is another ACTUAL quote in the same interview whithout the S&V creative editing...

'"I look at my whole lifes work and realize there is no medium for it"

The reason there is no medium for it is that Warner does not do sa-cd.

Neil recordings are all analog and it is gennerally agreed that sa-cd is the most analog sounding digital format available....this is why sa-cd [in this case] would sound superior to dvd-a.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:32 pm »

Good quote, Ears. Except that you are the only one mentioning SACD, not Young.

I know well that he loves analog tape. And one's life work would indeed require an impressive medium- it's not surprising that he's yet to find one.

Have you anything to add or should we quit while we're behind?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Mar 2004, 11:33 pm »

BTW, nice use of USA Today. Isn't that pretty much S&V minus the electronics?

It's the paper for people to read when they can't watch tv.

Still, I'll try to find a link to the whole article. Thanks.

Ears · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 12:06 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Good quote, Ears. Except that you are the only one mentioning SACD, not Young.

If you caught that then you surely caught the fact that the S&V article you reference did not quote Neil, it simply stated in the third person that Neil had auditioned sa-cd, and preffered dvd-a....maybe true, maybe not....we have no direct statement directly from Neil.

S&V put his comments in the wrong light and made it all about the only hi rez format Neils label let him use...which happens to be the S&V format of choice.

If you want to read how Neil feels about sa-cd....you have to subscribe to ICE magazine to read the interview.

The point of the USA today interview is that it is newer than the S&V one and there is no promoting of dvd-a in it as his publicists was not there keeping him inline like in the S&V marketing add you call an interview.

When nobody from the label is present, Neil speaks freely about vinyl and/or sa-cd.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 12:23 am »

Yeah, Neil is a real shrinking violet. I never figured him for that level of dishonesty/hipocracy. Well, I guess short of buying a subscription I'm left with the same hearsay evidence from you that you've been criticizing in the S&V article. He prefers it because you say so, apparently.

Would you be "breaking the code of silence" to quote from that source or at least link it? I promise I'll never tell anyone you did!

At the very least, link the ICE mag or whatever it is- if it's not too expensive maybe I'll subscribe.

If you won't back up your assertions with anything credible, then I guess I'll at least let you get in any last shots you wanna make so we can wrap up this tedious diatribe. It's a shame that the whole point of this topic has spun off tangent; I primarily meant to alert any fans of Young's that this oft-delayed disc is finally on the shelf. And so far I've wasted my time arguing about this instead of listening to "Greendale." So any discussion of the actual music or the SQ of this particular disc would be welcome, but otherwise I'll just let this one go.

You win, if that will end this.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 12:50 am »

Nevermind the link to ICE- I already had it. I read this on the ICE website:

"Young, who has long been an outspoken critic of the CD format, has embraced DVD Audio. "I got a call from Neil, and for the first time he was enamored of a digital format," recounts Mazer, who actually co-produced the original Harvest album. "

Before you jump me about it, this isn't an interview with Young. I don't want to liberally cut & paste from a copyrighted source, though. Here's the article I was reading- http://www.icemagazine.com/stories/183/dvd.asp

rbrb · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 02:33 am »

I also like the sound of Harvest on DVD-A

Neil disliked the sound of CD's so much that he never allowed his full catalog of recordings to be released on CD.

If he has enough control over his recordings as to not allow them to be on CD I think he would have some say in what HI-REZ format they come out on

Ears · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 03:29 am »

Rob, do you see were it says at the bottom of the page...for the rest of the article?

That is what I am saying you need a subscription for to find out about Neils thoughts on sacd and vinyl ect.

Any way you believe S&V marketing that says through a third party that supposedly Neil thinks dvd-a is the best format.
I show you were he says Vinyl is the superior format directly quoted and that dvd-a was not a good enough medium for his lifes work after the S&V article just to show you the credibility or lack there of from S&V.

I am sorry that I can't remember the name of the musicians rag were Neil said he prefered sacd, but that was well over 2 years ago and nobody was arguing about it then.

BTW... I am not arguing whith you, just pointing out what I have read.

If you truely feel Neil loves dvd-a and thinks its as great as the S&V article potrays...so be it.

Greg

Ears · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 03:39 am »

Quote from: rbrb

I also like the sound of Harvest on DVD-A

Neil disliked the sound of CD's so much that he never allowed his full catalog of recordings to be released on CD.

If he has enough control over his recordings as to not allow them to be on CD I think he would have some say in what HI-REZ format they come out on

Warner does not make sacd's so unless he went whith another label and has control of the rights to all of his music....this would be impossible.
He does have enough control to re-release titles on vinyl and maybe enough to insist on no watermarking of recordings done in dvd-a, and even that is a big maybe.

Warner artist do not get a choice of sacd, much like Sony artists don't get to choose dvd-a...and unless something drastic happens, this is how it will be for a while.

Greg

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar 2004, 03:49 am »

I believe that Neil must own the back catalog going back a certain length of time, as I too am aware that for many years he wouldn't authorize the release of many of the old ones on CD. Many of them have been issued now, and I've heard Young explain this once.

Ears, do you even read other peoples posts before you respond?

Nevermind...I'm sure Neil loves SACD and was just fucking lying thru this teeth in the other half dozen interviews. He's a well known shill, and known to have no trace of integrity, right? He was just bs'ing us when he said in his own words that he loves DVD-A. Steve Hoffman is lying, the guy who originally produced "Harvest" is mistaken, etc.

You win, will you give it a rest already?

BTW, have you ever heard "Greendale" on DVD-A? Do you intend to discuss it at all or just argue about something that is starting to look like can't be resolved here? If the latter I'll just move this to fight club so we don't bother the nice people here and start a thread that's actually about the DVD-A of Greendale. I think I'll call it, "Neil Young- Greendale on DVD-A"...oh wait, that's taken.