[Richard in Idaho]

I find the idea of full range drivers interesting. Since two of these are made in Utah an easy days drive from my home (ZU & Tekton) I plan to visit both after it warms up a bit

First off I am 70 years old and my hearing appears to drop out at around 8,400 Hz.

From what I have read the tweeters in the Zu are filtered to play only above 10,000 Hz.

Does this mean that I will hear nothing from the tweeters? That is will the speakers sound the same if the tweeters were removed? Or am I missing something in sound reproduction.

Also have been checking other full range speakers.

Thanks for any info.

[Scott F.]

Richard,

So much of what you hear (or don't hear) depends on the severity of your hearing loss. You may be lucky and have reasonably decent hearing above 8k. That is to say that even though your hearing is diminished, it may not be completely gone. If that is the case, you may well be able to pick up some of the highs above 8k. Granted they will likely be attenuated but you may well be able to hear them.

You really won't know unless you have a professional perform a hearing test complete with FR graphs showing your hearing curve. Then you can make an educated guess as to whether you will hear the tweeter or not.

Now this is just me and I have no firm info to back it up but I've always been suspect of some of the equipment they use in a hearing test. When you look at some of the high end headphones and compare them to (what seems like) the $1.98 pair of headphones they use for a hearing test, it makes me wonder just how accurate any hearing test may be. Sure, I may have it all wrong and those cheep looking headphones may be calibrated but .....

[JLM]

Richard,

Note that decades ago the reasonable goal for single drivers was 80 - 8,000 Hz (roughly 7 octaves).  OTOH some say that the frequencies above 20,000 Hz influence what we can hear. 

I'm 54 and am already thinking ahead about hearing loss.  My best tweak by far are industrial ear muffs (that I use when mowing the lawn).  So far I can still hear 16,000 Hz, but IME that top octave is of minimal importance.

This may be the last really nice system I'll own. 

[Wind Chaser]

At 47 and not being able to hear much over 12K, I can hear the tweeters from my Zu Druids.  Simplest way to find out is place your ear next to the tweeter when you go listen.  If you can't hear them, you should qualify for a discounted pair without tweeters.

[Richard in Idaho]

Thanks for the replies so far.

zman, I doubt that you are only hearing to 2KHz. That would only be about half of a piano. An 88 key piano plays from 27.5Hz to 4,168Hz. easy to check.
Not sure I trust someone who wants to sell hearing aids.

[JLM]

Richard,

The white keys (8 notes) cover 1 octave and each octave represents a doubling of the frequency (so a middle C is 256 Hz and high C is 512 Hz).  So hearing up to 2,000 Hz would cover all but the top octave of a piano.

Better to pick some test tones that you can play through your system.

A local stereo saleman told me of an older nearby professor of music who had been using speakers with blown tweeters for years without realizing it.  Unlike me, he only needed the faintest echo of a piece in order to recreate it in his mind.  Seems to me that (and the lack of funds) is why so many musicians aren't audiophiles.

[yeldarb]

If you have any "assembly" skills, you might want to look at the BK16 back loaded horn kit from Madisound.  Single driver with supertweeter.  Many have been built without the supertweeter.

If you build them, expect a loooooong breakin.  Google and you'll find much more info.

[Richard in Idaho]

JLM, I am sure you are correct. And Zman has verified what I thought.

[JLM]

So here I am in my insulated basement listening room, enjoying a snow day and Handel's Messiah, when I hear the snow plow (we have a 300 foot long gravel drive that I pay to keep it clear).  I went upstairs to finally meet the guy and clean the sidewalk when I realize that he is still cleaning at the base of the drive (the drive itself is still full of snow - no tracks).

Could I have heard him scraping 300 feet away from an insulated basement room with the stereo on?  Or was it ESP?  Weird for sure.

[Mitsuman]

Richard,

So much of what you hear (or don't hear) depends on the severity of your hearing loss. You may be lucky and have reasonably decent hearing above 8k. That is to say that even though your hearing is diminished, it may not be completely gone. If that is the case, you may well be able to pick up some of the highs above 8k. Granted they will likely be attenuated but you may well be able to hear them.

You really won't know unless you have a professional perform a hearing test complete with FR graphs showing your hearing curve. Then you can make an educated guess as to whether you will hear the tweeter or not.

Now this is just me and I have no firm info to back it up but I've always been suspect of some of the equipment they use in a hearing test. When you look at some of the high end headphones and compare them to (what seems like) the $1.98 pair of headphones they use for a hearing test, it makes me wonder just how accurate any hearing test may be. Sure, I may have it all wrong and those cheep looking headphones may be calibrated but .....

You'll have to speak up a bit Scott, I can't hear you. 

[planet10]

I find the idea of full range drivers interesting. Since two of these are made in Utah an easy days drive from my home (ZU & Tekton) ...

The most interesting FR stuff is all diy.

But while you are looking into prebuilt FR boxes close to you, check out Cain & Cain.

dave

[neobop]

Hearing loss doesn't work the way you'd think when it comes to listening to music. I did quite a bit of testing this when I sold high end stereo. Since that time I've read reports by research doctors, confirming.

It's normal for people with hearing loss to have trouble understanding speech, especially if there is background noise. This doesn't seem to effect their ability to hear high frequency music. Apparently the brain corrects for the loss and if anything, these people seem even more sensitive to high frequency anomalies. The equalizer is in your brain, which makes the correction, just like your brain corrects the inverted image your eyes send it.

One elderly gentleman had fairly advanced hearing loss. I deliberately chose records he was not familiar with. When questioned, he could describe characteristics of high frequency instruments, piccolo, chimes cymbals etc. Apparently he could hear stuff he thought he could not. There might be cases of people with physical damage too severe to overcome, I don't know. But for the vast majority, you'll be able to hear music for a long time after you're asking for everything spoken, to be repeated.
neo

[Richard in Idaho]

Thanks for all of the replies. Just wish spring would get here. I plan to be in Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, and Portland. Will listen to as many speakers as I can.