[Mass. Wine Guy]

I've been looking at four different speakers on Audiogon and would be very grateful for any real world opinions or comments about them.

Jamo C803 Monitors

Quad 12L (passive)

Aerial Acoustics Model 5 (I've heard good things about this)

Bob Brines Subwoofer (so I could just keep my SIlverline Minuets):
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1301331882&/Bob-Brines-Subwoofer-2-availab


Thanks very much.

[timind]

Of the three speakers you mention I have only owned the Quads so can't advise which is best. The Quad 12L2s are a very nice speaker, look good, sound good, hard to fault them. They will give you a lot more lower end than the Minuets. That being said, they weren't keepers for me.
Now for my advice. The only sure way I know to find the right speaker is to listen to them, preferably in your system. This is not as difficult as it sounds. Buy used, from respected sellers from sites like this one or Audiogon, and evaluate until you find what you like. Although it's time consuming, it doesn't really cost all that much. Find a good price, listen, resell if not happy. If you do your homework and get a decent price you should be able to resell with little loss. On occasion you may even make money.
Here's a partial list of the speakers I have owned over the past five or so years: Silverline SR-15, Silverline SR-11 (twice), Quad 11L and 12L2, Von Schweikert VR-1, Polk Audio Lsi-7, Revel M-20 (the best but sold in a fit of stupidity), Usher S-520, Soliloquy 5.0 (the keepers). That is a partial list that I'd call a highlight list.
Listening in your own system is the absolute best way to determine the worthiness of any component. I believe that is indisputable. This was my method for achieving that goal. Good luck with the search.

[jtwrace]

Meh.

Out of that list I'd go with the Aerial. 

[Bemopti123]

If you are going with the Aerial you need some high current amplification to make it sound alive.  I heard it paired with a 150 watts per channel Rowland integrated in NYC and it sounded great.  Regular Class A/AB power and no shallow D watts. 

[sunnydaze]

Are you committed to monitors?  Would you consider a small floorstander?

I have owned many many speakers in my life, and heard many others, and I have never heard a monitor I could live with.  Just too incomplete and lightweight sounding -- can't give the proper weight, scale, impact and bass.  And don't necessarily buy into the arguement that big speakers can't stage and disappear like monitors.  My current (large) floorstanders  are 150 lbs each and they completely disappear into a lovely and spacious soundstage....better than many monitors I have heard.

I just searched AG floor standers in the $500 to $1000 range.  Several candidates there I would own before any on your shortlist:  Proac 1.5, Quad22L2, Soliloquy 5.3, PSB Stratus Gold, Audio Physic Tempo, etc.  Not there now but watch for Spendor, Coincident, Vienna Acoustics.

There is a pair of Soliloquy 6.2 up there now that is alotta speaker for used money.  My buddy has a pair and they are excellent.  They are almost 100 lbs each so you know the build is serious.  Not very hard to drive.  He has a 40 wpc PrimaLuna integrated on it and it is very open and musical with VG bass.

review:  http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/soliloquy_62.htm

For your guide I think he paid about $600, which IMO is an exc deal.

Last year, another friend bought a gorgeous pair of curly maple Silverline Sonatina 2 on AG for $1200.  Great speaker (I once owned it) at a great price.  Also easy to drive.

Some floorstanders that I have personally owned, really liked, and consider tremendous value for the $1200 to $1500 range in which they sold used:  PBN Montana SP3, Spendor FL9, Proac Response 2.5.  Probably several more that escape my memory at the moment.

Good luck in your search.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

If you are going with the Aerial you need some high current amplification to make it sound alive.  I heard it paired with a 150 watts per channel Rowland integrated in NYC and it sounded great.  Regular Class A/AB power and no shallow D watts.

Would my 150 W/channel Arte Forma work with these? What exactly does high current mean?

I really appreciate everyone's help. As far as monitors vs. floor standing goes, the wife acceptance factor is very high in the equation. But I would love to get some floor standing speakers if they're not too big. Seems like they would produce the sound I'm looking for, so I'll do a search.

I live close to the metro Boston area and know of at least one high end shop, Goodwin's. But I've been using the method of buying, evaluating in my system, then selling or keeping depending on the speaker. Do some Audiogon sellers let you evaluate and return, if necessary?

A hunting I will go.

[Bemopti123]

I think those Arte Forma watts are class D, right?

The issue with used sites, you buy, you usually keep them and if you do not like them, you sell them yourself.  The people are not running a consignment or a used audio shop, they sell you at a discount and you take the risk for system matching. 

[sunnydaze]

Use the AG zip code search feature and find a local seller.   See if he will allow you to come listen to them first.  Bring your amp.   

I welcome auditions when selling stuff, and as a buyer would be leery of anyone unwilling to offer that level of accommodation / friendliness.

As far as WAF, that is very personal.  I consider the Sonatina 2 a very attractive speaker.  It is smallish and most women like the elegant swept back look and rounded edges:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1855

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/silverline_sonatinaii.htm

The Proac Response 2.5 is fairly tall, but when I owned it women would typically comment that they like the sparse utilitarian look.  Almost "shaker-like" in functional appearance:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1249

(PS:  they don't look like they would, but these speakers produce great bass)

Vienna Acoustics Bach (original) is a nice small floorstander,  and can be had for about $500 used.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1584

The original VA Mozart is also very nice, about $900 used:

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/197vienna

No experience with them, but I would also look into Usher.  Reported to be good sound, good value.

Coincident Conquest and Partial Eclipse models -- smallish, VG sound, easy to drive, cheap used.

Spendor S5e or S6e --  I owned the earlier S6.  Nice lil speaker.  Very attractive, small and sounds good.  My buddy might have a VGC pair FS in NYC area.  Good price, contact me if interested.

http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infospendor.html

Just a few examples of attractive compact floorstanders.  Many many more out there.  I am very familiar with all speakers that I mention, and your amp will easily drive them all.  Impossible to know if a synergistic pairing will result.  That can only be known by trying.

Personally, I prefer a floorstander over monitor + sub.  I have done the latter.  It takes up more floor space and you just get bogged down with xtra everything: cables, amps, etc.  I just got tired of having all that "junk" around my living room.  If you have a dedicated listening room where aesthetics matter less, well that's a different story.  VG results can be had from monitor + sub....especially if you get a pair!

PS:  no offense, but I can confidently state that all these speakers are light years beyond your Minuets in sonic quality.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

PS:  no offense, but I can confidently state that all these speakers are light years beyond your Minuets in sonic quality.

None taken. Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

[sunnydaze]

I would also add Meadowlark Kestrel and Shearwaters (esp "Hot Rod" versions of each model) to your list.  They regularly show up used $400 to $1000.  VG speakers, not physically imposing and very easy on the eyes.  I owned the larger Heron "i" model for years and they were excellent.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/ian03.htm

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/669

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/meadolark.html

http://www.soundstage.com/rise07.htm

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/kestrel.htm

In loudspeakers, I prize musicality and an engaging character first and foremost.  All my recs fit this bill.  If your priorities are different, if you are a detail or transparency or "hifi sound" freak, you may prefer different spkrs.  Just wanted to tell you where I'm coming from.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I think those Arte Forma watts are class D, right?

The issue with used sites, you buy, you usually keep them and if you do not like them, you sell them yourself.  The people are not running a consignment or a used audio shop, they sell you at a discount and you take the risk for system matching.

That's what I thought. I don't believe there is anything Class D about the Arte Forma, but maybe I'm wrong.

[lonewolfny42]

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue53/arte_forma.htm

http://www.cryo-parts.com/index.php/arte-forma/arte-forma-susan-integrated-amplifier

[JLM]

Going the powered subwoofer route does give flexibility.  Using a sub allows you to dial in the amount bass (based on room/taste) which you typically can't do with full range speakers.  And they will relieve your Silverlines from trying to do too much (bass) which will improve their power handling abilities as well as midrange dynamics and clarity.  Stereo subs is the killer route.  Note that bass is ideally generated in different places in the room than mids/highs.  But if you (or wife) wants, you could use those cabinets as speaker stands (and be no worse off than simply using full range speakers).

I own Bob Brines FTA-2000, but have never seen those subs from him.  Bob is a gentleman, a scholar, and does good work.  You could contact him directly (bob@brinesacoustics.com).  Those look to be music not HT oriented (as I'd expect from Bob) which means dynamic and tuneful, not extremely low frequencies or shake the house apart sort of performance.

If you like your Silverlines and/or hesitate at the prospect of selling them the subwoofer(s) might be your best option.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Thank you, LoneWolf, but I still don't find any references to Class D in those links. Of course, I need more coffee so I may have missed them.

A subwoofer question: My amp has four inputs and speaker posts for the left and right channels. How would I hook a sub to it?

[sunnydaze]

And they (the subs) will relieve your Silverlines from trying to do too much (bass) which will improve their power handling abilities as well as midrange dynamics and clarity.

Only if you go "active".  That means putting an equalizer before the main amp, and only delivering to it that part of the FR above the x-over point.  That means another box and more cabling, and necessitates more shelf space.   If you go "passive" and simply add a sub to the mix, the main amp and monitors are still trying to produce the full range signal, and are not relieved of anything.

Stereo subs is the killer route.  Note that bass is ideally generated in different places in the room than mids/highs.  But if you (or wife) wants, you could use those cabinets as speaker stands (and be no worse off than simply using full range speakers).

Agree about the first part.  I once had a pair of REL Storm subs teamed w Ref 3A MM deCapo "i" monitors.  Apart from helping on the bottom, it did do very nice things to imaging and soundstaging.  But ultimately, I still went with and preferred a large floorstander.

Don't know about the second part.  Subs produce tremendous energy.  Putting a monitor on top of it means lots of cabinet vibration would get transmitted into the monitor, and possibly smear / corrupt the sound.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I'm definitely not adding yet another layer of boxes and cables in addition to a sub. My hope is to place the sub in a corner somewhere behind the couch so it's invisible.

This new sub is getting some pretty wonderful writeups:

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

In back is one balanced input and two unbalanced RCA plug inputs. Would I connect a pair of bare wires at the amp's speaker posts, and then terminate the other two ends with RCAs?

[srb]

In back is one balanced input and two unbalanced RCA plug inputs. Would I connect a pair of bare wires at the amp's speaker posts, and then terminate the other two ends with RCAs?

If your amplifier doesn't have preamp outputs (and I don't believe it does?), then you will need either
 
1.  A subwoofer that has binding post speaker level inputs to which you would connect your amplifier and the main speakers would connect to another set of speaker binding posts on the subwoofer
 
OR
 
2.  A subwoofer like the REL that has a proprietary cable that connects to the speaker outputs on your amplifier (where your main speakers are also connected)
 
Steve

[Letitroll98]

In back is one balanced input and two unbalanced RCA plug inputs. Would I connect a pair of bare wires at the amp's speaker posts, and then terminate the other two ends with RCAs?

Just to add to the post above so you are clear, NO, don't do this.  The Emotiva sub won't work for you, but it's a rare bird, most economy subs have speaker binding posts. 

Additionally, many subs have high pass crossovers as well as the low pass crossover you see on the Emotiva back panel.  Using the speaker terminals with these subs will relieve the Minuets from handling lower bass duties, albeit there is much controversy over the quality of these crossovers, which is a whole 'nother subject.

[JLM]

Check with the Audiogon seller of that sub.  It looks like it has lots of connections, so you could run your amp directly into one/both subs, then as Letitroll98 said you run more speaker cable to the Silverlines.  The sub(s) appears to have crossover and volume controls to give maximum flexibility (most subs do).  Again check with the seller.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I just bought a pair of very slightly used Quad 12L 2 speakers from Audiogon. I've never had a British speaker, but it's very well reviewed. The proof is in the hearing.