Super Pas 3

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rcag_ils

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Super Pas 3
« on: 22 Jan 2011, 10:57 pm »
If anyone still has a Super Pas 3 for regular use, and care to share your inputs and opinions about  this preamp, I would like to hear them.

Thanks

Indiansprings

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jan 2011, 12:14 am »
I would like to hear them as well.

Flyquail56

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #2 on: 24 Jan 2011, 02:32 am »

I still have a Super PAS 3 that saw regular use until about 5 years ago. Now it and a ST70 are in rotation with two tube integrated amps. I have tried several PAS modifications over the years, and found the Super PAS 3 to provide the best sound.

If you’re interested in the gory details, I got my first new PAS around 1976 after hearing a modified Dynaco system at the CES in Chicago that year with Fulton/FMI speakers (my first exposure to truly high-fidelity sound). I built the PAS with modification plans from a place in San Diego called Audio Dimensions, and thought it sounded great.  Then I put together a system for a friend. He didn’t want to budget for the fancy parts from Audio Dimensions, so I just tweaked the RIAA, and deleted the tone controls and hi filter. You probably know what happened next. His preamp sounded better than mine.  Learning experience:  modified is not synonymous with improved! Turns out the Audio Dimensions mod was basically to change all the circuit values to those of the ARC SP3A-1, but of course without the cathode followers. That made it sound relatively dark and slow in comparison to the less-modified PAS, much like a real SP3A-1. So, out with the Audio Dimensions circuit, and in with the circuit like my friend’s unit. I stayed with that for many years. My chief complaint was a slightly nasal quality to the sound that I thought was the fault of my speakers but turns out was the linestage. In a second PAS, I built Norman Koren’s circuit when it was published in Audio Amateur, I think around early to mid 90s. It was a good sounding circuit that eliminated that nasal quality, but overall was a little veiled, maybe due to the cathode followers, I don’t know. But it put your listening perspective in the back half of the hall rather than the front half, so to speak.  Not long after that, I decided to go with the AVA circuit, probably because I had begun to question my ST70 mods, and implemented Frank’s 1982 Audio Basics article on an ST70 with great results.   The Super PAS 3 proved superior to the Koren mods, and that annoying nasal quality was still gone.  I have tried one other circuit since that time, a cascode linestage from an article by Bruce Rozenblit in Glass Audio. It’s good, but not as good as the Super PAS 3 in my opinion. The only other preamp that I have compared directly to the Super PAS 3 is a McIntosh C20 that I owned. Other than the cool factor, it’s not as good, so I sold it.

I have not had the pleasure of hearing any of the newest AVA gear, and I am sure they are amazing, but that doesn’t make the Super PAS 3 any less satisfying, especially if your reference is live music. Hope something in this long tome was useful!

Best regards,
Mike

dB Cooper

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jan 2011, 03:43 am »
The best testament to the quality of the Super Pas upgrade is the fact that Frank still offers a kit to do it. I have been considering one for no other reason than to have a kit to build. I built a Super PAS 4 but the AVA-cchassis-based kits are no longer offered.

And consider btw how unusual it is that a company supports a 50+/- y.o. product with a kit that there just can't be a big demand for. That's worthy of raising a beer. Customer support like that doesn't happen anymore.

charmerci

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jan 2011, 04:00 am »
I pulled out my old copy of the October 1988 Stereophile of John Atkinson's review of the Super Pas 3. He liked it very much saying that the treble was "refreshingly free of grain", there was "great clarity in the midrange" and more important, it "never fails  to be musical."

rcag_ils

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jan 2011, 11:37 pm »
I'd like to get some inputs on the regular pas 3 because I have never heard one. I have this one off super pas 3 with a regulated plate voltage power supply, so I just want to get some idea how it compares to a regular one.

When I just got the unit, I thought the top end is kind of edgy. Then I took it to my shop (where I work) to clean up the stereo/mono switch, and the tape/input input, and what a difference it made, dirty switch can affect sound even it has no drop out.

It has details, and a full sound stage. In comparison to my modified super pas 4i, The super pas 3 needs to be be turned up a few clicks in order to play as loud as the super pas 4i, and it has a tad less bass impact then the 4i (but if I sit back a little more, then the bass is good, it's my room). The super pas 3 sounds more forward then the 4i. That's when it played throught the delta 120. When it played throught the 550, it sounded great, but the super pas 4i modified still beat it by a notch or two.

A very enjoyable little unit. I am glad I have it.

( an hour and 15 min later)

Wait...maybe it's the warm-up, now it seems to sound as good as the 4i. I'll have to do more serious listening before I can compare.

rcag_ils

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #6 on: 6 Feb 2011, 12:19 am »
I was tired of cleaning the 40 year old tape/input switch, so today I took the preamp to my shop and replaced it with a new DPST switch.

What a difference does it make. Now the sound has more details and higher resolution. Frequencies are more balanced in both channels. I highly recommend just replaced the switch instead of keep cleaning the old one every so often. The job of replacing it is not fun, but it's well worth the effort.
« Last Edit: 6 Feb 2011, 02:35 pm by rcag_ils »

rlee8394

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #7 on: 6 Feb 2011, 06:30 am »
When I built my last Super PAS 3, I eliminated the tape monitor switch altogether! I was tired of the channel dropouts and constant cleaning. I don't have a need for the tape monitor function, so it was a no brainer for me. i don't miss it at all.

Ron

rcag_ils

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #8 on: 6 Feb 2011, 02:34 pm »
I use my tape players, so I have to have the tape function available. The new switch that I put in is not a NOS from the antique radio shop, it's a current production part. It meets all the spec of the old switch except it does not have the threaded mounting holes for the screws, I had to hunt for the lockwashers and nuts for it. If ones building a Super Pas 3 and need the tape function, he really should replace this $1.05 part, instead of reusing the old one. For my old switch, after a few cleanings, the lubricant was gone and the switch became hard to operate, I didn't want to spray any lube in there, they don't always work.

I also like to eliminate the stereo expansion switch, and just make it a mono/stereo switch. But finding one that will fit, and keeping the original look may be tough.

rlee8394

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #9 on: 6 Feb 2011, 07:01 pm »
I wired up an Electroswitch 6 position 4 pole switch Part # C4D0406N-A, Allied stock number 747-6705, as a new blend switch. It works well. It's a bit more stiff switching positions than the stock Dynaco switch, but not bad. If you can't find a Dynaco part, this is a good alternative in my opinion. You can see a photo of it in my gallery here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1763

Ron

rcag_ils

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #10 on: 6 Feb 2011, 09:19 pm »
Ron, the photo doesn't show the Allied switch on the unit.

I looked up the part though, it costs about $18.00, kind of spendy. So you retain the stereo blend function by using a 6-position switch? I am thinking getting a 2-position switch and make it a stereo/mono switch.

Did you get the selector switch from Frank?

rlee8394

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #11 on: 6 Feb 2011, 10:27 pm »
Whoops, wrong Super PAS 3. See this one here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1764

Yes, both of my SP3s had the new selector switch as well as the ground plane back panel jack set. Also I bought the Nobel pots for the volume and balance controls from Frank as well.

Ron

heiba

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #12 on: 7 Feb 2011, 09:17 am »
Well, I did buy the Super PAS 3 with the tape/monitor switch from you Ron, and I like the pre-amp a lot.
From a webforum:
If you connect solid-state equipment of any kind to the TAPE OUT jack of the PAS, you will get bass roll-off in phono unless a buffer stage is used.

What is your experience with this, if you make CD-copies of vinyl?

Ola
Norway

rlee8394

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #13 on: 7 Feb 2011, 03:12 pm »
I haven't hooked anything up to a TAPE IN/OUT jack in about thirty years so I can't comment on that.

Ron

heiba

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #14 on: 7 Feb 2011, 08:43 pm »
 C
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2018, 07:43 pm by heiba »

rcag_ils

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Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #15 on: 7 Feb 2011, 10:05 pm »
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« Last Edit: 8 Feb 2011, 02:47 am by rcag_ils »

Listens2tubes


Russellc

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #17 on: 19 Feb 2011, 03:08 am »
I built 2 of them in the mid 90's and still use them regularly.  Most reliable pre I've ever used.  I've used a few over the years, and when they got tweeky, the Super Pas 3 pre amps just kept on running, year after year.  Very nice phono stage as well.

Russellc

Russellc

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #18 on: 10 May 2011, 01:40 pm »
When I built my last Super PAS 3, I eliminated the tape monitor switch altogether! I was tired of the channel dropouts and constant cleaning. I don't have a need for the tape monitor function, so it was a no brainer for me. i don't miss it at all.

Ron

Old post I know, but thought I would comment on this post.  The tape switch on the Super Pas III is not for a tape loop, it converts it into another input.  I suppose some here left it as a tape.  I have had trouble with that switch, Curcios Dynaco doctor site used to sell the replacement for about 5 bucks.

Russellc

Wayner

Re: Super Pas 3
« Reply #19 on: 10 May 2011, 08:38 pm »
If your talking about the spring loaded rocker switch, as found on other Dyna preamps, it literally was just a tape monitor button. It was meant to be used to periodically monitor recordings be made from the preamp, assuming that the listener would really rather listen to the source. Perhaps not the best thought out switch function, tho.

Wayner  8)