dedicated line?

bradmorris1 · « **on:** 15 Jan 2011, 09:05 pm »

I'm about to hook up a dedicated line for audio to my breaker box. Is standard issue 14/2 Romex fine or should I be looking at something else?

2wo · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jan 2011, 10:06 pm »

At the least I would use 12/2. How about BX for a shielded run...John

drummermitchell · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Jan 2011, 12:32 am »

Some run 12 awg.I did quite a bit of searching over the years and alot of people use 10awg.
That's what I use.my main I use 8awg to subpanel as I have 1X240 and 4X15a receptacles(all 10awg)
I also run a dedicated 20a along the wall and that's 10awg,and of course in the front I have another 8awg for a 30a receptacle.those two 240v feed my front and back TorusX2.
no starvation here

.

Pez · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Jan 2011, 12:46 am »

It not a perfect fit, but thought this topic was better off here. Carry on, interesting stuff.

sts9fan · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Jan 2011, 12:52 am »

I am putting a dedicated line in next weekend for my system. I am just using 12ga romex for a 20A breaker. Gonna be a quick easy project.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jan 2011, 06:42 pm »

Funny thing, I'm replacing a 14/2 romex line with 12/2 cryo'd BX w/Pass & Seymour 5262 Industrial Spec duplex outlet. This will be used for my cd and R2R tape deck.

Well back downstairs to route the BX.

Bigfish · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jan 2011, 06:48 pm »

Quote from: bradmorris1 on 15 Jan 2011, 09:05 pm

I'm about to hook up a dedicated line for audio to my breaker box. Is standard issue 14/2 Romex fine or should I be looking at something else?

Have you completed the project? I believe code requires 12 guage romex for 20 amp service and I recommend if you are running dedicated lines to plan on 20 amp outlets. Last year I ran two dedicated 10 guage romex lines to 20 amp outlets. Yes, there was an audible improvement and well worth the investment.

Ken

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jan 2011, 06:56 pm »

Non-metallic cable (Romex, etc.) should only be used for protected in-wall installation. Any exposed wiring on the surface of the wall should either be rigid conduit or flexible BX sheathing to satisfy electrical code and related insurance and appraisal requirements.

Steve

Speedskater · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 03:48 am »

The only reason for using 20 Amp receptacles is that you have a 20 Amp plug (the outlet is the box on the wall). Most of the parts and pieces in 15 Amp and 20 Amp receptacles are the same and a 15 Amp receptacle mates with a 15 Amp plug ever so slightly better.

Oh, one plug connects with one receptacle, most receptacle's are really dual receptacles.

Don't be to neat with your Romex (NM) as twists are good, same goes for zip-cord type speaker wire.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 03:58 am »

My over the ceiling 20 amp wires passed the inspection. So I can hook them up.
I have a single 20 amp outlet in the kitchen, and want to use it for my stuff. To go around the walls would require 100 ft of wire. To go over the ceiling is only 26 ft. I have eight 12 gauge (mil spec silver plated) teflon wires in 2 quad twisted sets with two solid 12 gauge wires added along for grounds. So each quad plus a ground into one plug. then the wires are available for all my stuff at the user end. The kitchen wire is only a few feet from the breaker box.
So eventually i will sort out the wires, connect it all up and see if it makes any difference.

tabrink · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 04:14 am »

"The only reason for using 20 Amp receptacles is that you have a 20 Amp plug (the outlet is the box on the wall)."

I might add that the NEC (National Electric Code) provides that the 20 amp breaker is required to protect the wire (minimum 12 gauge) and the device attached to it. After the first 20 amp device you are allowed to use a 15 amp receptacle.
My suggestion is a #12 gauge wire fed off a bolted not stabbed breaker to a dedicated 20 amp hospital grade receptacle .. Avoid isolated ground devices and limit splices.
In a perfect world a bolted sub fed panel dedicated to audio is the cats meow.

Speedskater · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 01:38 pm »

I might add that the NEC (National Electric Code) provides that the 20 amp breaker is required to protect the wire (minimum 12 gauge) and the device attached to it.

More like - the smallest wire permitted on a 20 Amp circuit is 12 AWG.

After the first 20 amp device you are allowed to use a 15 amp receptacle.

This is not correct, not even close.
A 15 Amp dual receptacle as the only device, is permitted on a 20 Amp circuit.

bside123 · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 02:50 pm »

I hope that this is not too off-topic, but since the subject is "dedicated line?," I'll give it a shot. My question(s) is related to this: I have dedicated lines for two channel audio in two residences. In both houses, I also have a VPI 16.5 RCM. I use the VPI 16.5 on completely separate lines and in different locations than the stereo gear. While using the VPI 16.5 in both houses, when turning the RCM platter motor both on & off, I get a fairly loud POPPING sound through my speakers. Ouch! This is a bit disconcerting. Any clues?

JLM · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 03:01 pm »

Arguing its and bits of code confuses us civilians (and maybe you too).

I have three 12 gauge, 20 amp breaker circuits serving my audio system that each have a single cryo'd hospital grade 20 amp duplex receptacle, all of which has a common, separate ground. Don't know if this is proper or code, but an audiophile electrican recommended it years ago and it passed inspection from one nasty, mean local electrical inspector.

I suppose a truly dedicated line would involve your own private power source. Our 5 year old house has underground service, all new applicances, whole house surge protector, and all 12 gauge/20 amp circuits. But honestly, while I've heard the effects of power abberations, I've never experienced it here or anywhere else I've lived (even a 50 year old house with a very scary rats nest of wiring).

sts9fan · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 03:12 pm »

I put mine in yesterday. I have not had a chance to listen yet but its nice to know that the only thing on the breaker is the audio system.

dBe · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 04:33 pm »

When I installed my dedicated lines, I used Siemens 20A circuit breakers and ran 10ga wire twisted @ 1TPF with a parallel run of 8ga for the ground. The ground IS NOT twisted in the H/N pair. Low impedance ground paths are essential where noise reduction devices are used at the circuit terminus.

As to the receptacle debate, this is from the 2008 National Electrical Code (in accordance with the IEC):

- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual
branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

The new 2011 is unchanged in this area.

The fear is that underrated receptacles will be used and possibly overheat. BAD juju. !!!

For dedicated circuits, I would strongly suggest that the receptacles used be at least Spec Grade. Common residential grade 15A receptacles use .028 -.030 double wipe contacts. Heavy Duty or Spec Grade have triple wipe .032 (min) contacts and Extra Heavy Duty Spec Grade have .036 triple wipe contacts.

Hospital grade and MRI units are "generally" Spec Grade. There are some EHDSG units available.

With the (possible) high current application that audio can be, I would recommend that the receptacles be inspected at least once a year for conductor tightness. If you do not feel comfortable with this process hire or find some one that is to do the job. Turn off the circuit at the panel or subpanel and remove all of the equipment plugs from their receptacles. Double check to make sure that all of the receptacles are not energized. Remove the faceplates. Triple check to make sure that all of the receptacles are not energized - this means to check EVERY outlet in the system. I have seen split wired receptacles that are NOT on the same circuits... this can ruin your day. Remove the receptacle and inspect every connection for tightness and oxidation. Heating and cooling of the wire WILL loosen the screws over time. Clean the wire and binding screws and use non-CFC aerosol circuit cleaner to clean the recpetacle inside and out. Observing proper polarity (Black is Hot - White is Not) reassemble the receptacle and reinstall. Squeak those screws tight! Put it all back together and rock on

Power is your friend the abuse of power is fatal - don't forget that.

Oh, don't forget to polish the ends of the plugs that go into the receptacle. Sounds better that way. I polish the internal contacts of the receptacles, too.

Dave

tabrink · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 04:53 pm »

dBe

I completely agree with your post.
As I use the NEC daily it is always good to share interpretation.
Good stuff.
tom

dBe · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 05:00 pm »

Quote from: tabrink on 24 Jan 2011, 04:53 pm

dBe

I completely agree with your post.
As I use the NEC daily it is always good to share interpretation.
Good stuff.
tom

Thanks, Tom.

I've seen guys get electrocuted - ain't pretty

Best to be on the safe side.

Have a great week and be safe.

Dave

Speedskater · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 05:02 pm »

As dBe wrote:

When I installed my dedicated lines, I used Siemens 20A circuit breakers and ran 10ga wire twisted @ 1TPF with a parallel run of 8ga for the ground. The ground IS NOT twisted in the H/N pair. Low impedance ground paths are essential where noise reduction devices are used at the circuit terminus.

This is definitely a very good way to run wires.
Twisted pair with Safety Ground in close proximity for the entire run from breaker box to outlet box.
But you do need to plane ahead for the large conduit.

As to the receptacle debate, this is from the 2008 National Electrical Code (in accordance with the IEC):
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual
branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit

Seldom do we see a single (rather than dual) 15 Amp receptacle.
Maybe the only places are for a recessed wall mount clock outlet or some permanent kitchen appliances .

Vapor Audio · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Jan 2011, 05:15 pm »

Quote from: dBe on 24 Jan 2011, 04:33 pm

When I installed my dedicated lines, I used Siemens 20A circuit breakers and ran 10ga wire twisted @ 1TPF with a parallel run of 8ga for the ground. The ground IS NOT twisted in the H/N pair. Low impedance ground paths are essential where noise reduction devices are used at the circuit terminus.

Could you give a bit more detail? Did you use a single conductor 10ga, and 2 conductor 8ga? And did you twist the hot around your ground wire ... or was is separated from the ground and twisted on it's own?

And how did you do your ground setup at the panel?

Quote

Power is your friend the abuse of power is fatal - don't forget that.

If that were true, everyone in Washington would be 6 feet under

But seriously, I'm a couple weeks away from cleaning up my panels and installing a few dedicated lines for a new listening room in the basement. My full basement is unfinished right now, so doing it the 'right' way will be easy ... I just need to know what 'right' is. And I need to understand it well enough to explain to an electrician, because when I tell them I want clean power their face tends to go blank.

One question, I'm going to install a breakout panel just for my listening room. I assume I should try to take it off the clean leg of the main panel, meaning the leg without the Refrigerator, furnaces, other noisy appliances on it ... but should it share the same ground, or should I plan on it having it's own ground? And if so, how is the best way to do that?