[Roger Smith]

I'm interested in the floor-standing series of PMC speakers, especially the new GB1 (no local dealers yet). Are these domesticated models (FB1, OB1, GB1) true to their studio monitor roots? I’ve found that some popular speakers exhibit and a lot of people seem to enjoy a slightly recessed midrange response (presence dip, whatever you want to call it). I am *not* one of those people.

I’m using monitor-type speakers now (Harbeth M30s with a 4B SST) and really like most of what they do, but I’m not really happy with their vented bass performance -- hence my considering PMC. Do the PMC floor-standers have a flat midrange response (not tweaked for home listening)?

Hope I’m making sense here, thanks.

[James Tanner]

Hi Roger,

The PMC's remain true to their Professional Monitor roots - linearity across the frequency spectrum is the goal.

james

[Roger Smith]

Thank you James.

[Eric]

How would the sound of PCM's compare to paradigm studio 100's that I am currently using with my 4bsst / bp20 setup?

[thomaspf]

Bass response will eventually come down to volume and displacement.

If you have the space try the Monitor 40 before jumping away from Harbeth. The neutrality is hard to beat. I used to have the SP1/2es and then listened to Monitor 30s and eventually ended up with the Monitor 40s. I looked at ATCs, Proac and some other monitors in that class but for voices and other natural sound sources that you can calibrate against there was no match.

I should disclose that I could not audition PMC speakers here in Seattle but the Harbeth/Bryston combination seems to work well for me. Trust your ears.

Cheers

    Thomas

[jethro]

I've listened to the Harbeth M40 and now own the PMC IB1s. On my personal list of the best speakers that I've listened to, the M40 rates #2 and the IB1's #1. My list also contains speakers that are twice as much as the IB1's and M40's.
I have personally found that the IB1's are much more natural than the M40's and the bass response of the IB1 is less distorted than the M40's. Voices on the IB1's are so real it's scary and the bass feels like it is hitting you in the chest when the bass is really on the source material. This is in a 13 x 18 x 8' room with no treatment and the speakers positioned on the long wall, Bryston 4B-ST and SP-1.7. I haven't heard the other PMC models so I can't comment. My 2 cents worth.

[thomaspf]

I guess I should find a place to listen to the IB1s. However, I have never considered the bass on the Harbeth distorted. The Monitor 40 needs a pretty large space or sets off all kinds of room modes.

Cheers

   Thomas

[jethro]

I guess I should find a place to listen to the IB1s. However, I have never considered the bass on the Harbeth distorted. The Monitor 40 needs a pretty large space or sets off all kinds of room modes.

Cheers

   Thomas

"Distorted" may have been a bad choice of words on my part. The bass response didn't seem to be as flat for the M40's as compared to the IB1's.
It may have been the room, although it was the local Harbeth dealer's sound room. If Harbeth hadn't moved the North American Harbeth Disitrbutor from my location, which probably resulted in my local dealer dropping the line, I probably would bought  M40s without ever knowing the capabilities of the IB1's.

[ScottMayo]

Who sells these in the Boston/North Central Mass area?

For speakers that get good reviews, the blasted things seem to be hard to find...

[Aether Audio]

Dear Roger,

I was just checking out the various circles and stummbled upon this thread. I'm taking a chance of posting here with the risk of coming across as blatantly shilling our products.  Everyone, please do not interpret it as such.  My only intent is to pass along information so that Roger has a greater range of options.  I am not suggesting that our products are necessarily superior to those of PMC as I am sure they make  superb monitors.

If you are aware of our products then the following is totally unecessary.  Moderator - if this is interpreted as improper , please do not hesitate to delete this post from this circle.

In light of the above, as your interest appears professional in nature, all I would do is direct you to Steve Murphy's review of the SP Technology Timepiece 2.0 Monitor in the August issue of Pro Audio Review magazine.

http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/august03/SP_Technology.shtml

The Timepiece was also chosen as one of the Reviewer's Pick products for 2003 in their December issue.  

As far as profesional features go, they do offer an extremely flat response without any form of depression of the midrange response,  a frequency and phase graph is included with and for each individual speaker and they provide bi-wiring capability through a professional,  Neutrik "Speak-On" locking connector (as well as a dual set of standard binding posts).  Also, they do not suffer from the typical bass issues of many other brands as they are not excursion limited at any frequency from 30Hz and above.

I will not comment on their sound as that is for others to do and would be clearly crossing the line.  If you are interested in the opinions of other SP Tech users that are members of the AC family, you can find a number of their postings in our circle. I hope the above information is of some use to everyone and that it is not received as improper.

Have a good day and good luck in your quest!  
-Bob

[teaandcake]

I’ve found that some popular speakers exhibit and a lot of people seem to enjoy a slightly recessed midrange response (presence dip, whatever you want to call it). I am *not* one of those people.

I own a BP25/4B-SST & OB1 setup, I listened to the FB1 against the OB1 prior to purchase and can confirm that they are both slightly restrained throughout the upper mid, the frequency response graphs for the OB1 & IB1 show that there is a definte dip in this region.

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/pmc-ob1.html
http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/pmcib1s.html

This dip is noticable, making vocals sit slightly further back in the soundstage than is strictly correct. Also making the sound less intelligable at lower volumes. The flip side of this is that you can listen at silly volumes wothout the sound becoming harsh and agressive. To overcome this I have used employed electronics that are a bit forward sounding such as the superb dac64. However as with any purchase I would advise an audition with your own equipment, room and ears!!

[thomaspf]

Please also realize that you will suffer permanet hearing damage if you continuosly listen to the levels 88db at which this graphs have been drawn.

When you listen at somehwat safer levels than the loudness effect will turn this response into virtually flat. It will still sound very lean in the bass for domestic levels much unlike a Harbeth which will give you a warm and full sound at let's say 65-70db SPL.

Cheers

   Thomas

[Yogus]

Also, it depends very much on the room that you're listening to.

I'd dare say the domestic PMCs may be more tuned towards a smaller British listening room and therefore the restraint in the presence zone won't be as noticeable.

In my room with a 2.5m listening distance the midrange is fine.

[guest2521]

The domestic range are voiced differently to the studio range. They are designed to sound better at lower level use and to be less "demanding" or "ruthless" to compete better in there market. However they are still very good. The studio range is more strictly accurate - and the 3 way models are stunning in the midrange - I bought the MB2s. It depends what kind of sound you want - accurate or slightly "easier" to listen to.

Nick.

[thomaspf]

"Ruthless" what a very fitting description for the PMC house sound

[guest2521]

Perhaps "accurate" might be a more flattering term!  I love them anyway!

[thomaspf]

Hm, the last time I went to the opera that sounded quite a bit different from any PMC speaker that I have heard so far but you are absolutely right.

A lot of this comes down to personal taste and since most of the recorded music only exists in the computer these days who knows what accurate means in this case as long as it pleases the listener.

Cheers

   Thomas

[Yogus]

Hm, the last time I went to the opera that sounded quite a bit different from any PMC speaker that I have heard so far but you are absolutely right.

I don't think a speaker sounding like a live performance is a good indicator of its accuracy.

A live performance will always sound completely different to a studio recording for a host of factors such as:
1. proportion of direct vs reflected sound.
2. distance from the performance
3. room size and materials, etc, etc
4. etc, etc

This all affects imaging (have you ever been able to pinpoint an individual instrument at a live recording as well as a studio recording), reverb, decay as well as actual sound of the performance.



Live performances can sound different from one environment to the next and are never really consistent.  

The goal of accuracy is probably more how close you can get to the source disc/LP (i.e. how the engineer intended it to sound) rather than how close you can get to sound like a live performance.

Otherwise, we'd all be listening to Bose cubes which have a far higher reflected vs direct sound ratio.  

[thomaspf]

I knew that I should not have responded to this but I could not help it.

I am interested in getting a very good experience that is close to being at a live unamplified concert.

I am not interested in mixing music and being able to hear whether there are any artefacts in the mix. While this is probably necessary for music production it is not "accurate" by a long shot. I want a recorded voice being reproduced like an actual human talking in the room. Try recording yourself with a flat measurement microphone and listen to it on your speakers.

And yes, my room is treated and I have actually optimized my in room frequence response, etc. etc. etc.

Cheers

    Thomas

[Yogus]

I guess like you said before, the term accuracy means different things to different people...