[scp2]

I am a fairly newbie to hifi...and have been busy acquiring  gear.  By audiophile standards I am sure my room is really lacking in terms of being ideal. It is a combo living room/TV room/Listening room. I am ready to suggest to my wife we need some acoustics. She may have different thoughts so I need some help on where to start. The room is fairly large and open...22x16...with the whole right side open to our entryway. The ceilings are high 11'...but have wide crown moldings which may aide.

My room handled everything pretty well until I added a second amp. Now the base can get a little boomy on some songs. The room has a lot of furniture and accessories to help keep reflections in check. My thoughts are to start with some small base traps on the front wall corners. Next I thought some treatments behind my speakers.  Finaly a small bit of treatment on the back wall. These ideas are all wife permitting. Another idea is to add window treatments(curtains) on windows on left wall. My gear is all listed under my system. I have also included photos of my room.My main seating postion is on the couch

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.














Component listing

Digital Source Modwright Transporter with EML and Black Treasure tubes
Other Sources Duet Bolder analog modded(feeeding deck spkrs) Pioneer BDP051F(Bluray Player) 
Signal Processors Yamaha RXV-863 AVR
Preamp Joule Elextra La150 MKII SE
Power Amp 2 X Spectron Musician III with V-cap/Bybee running in bridged mono 
Speakers Von Schweikert VR-4 jr mk I
Subwoofer (1) Def Tech supercube II (used for HT)
Speaker Cables 2 pr Bryston SC-4 speaker cable biwired 
Interconnects Grover Huffman SX RCA
Power Cables Wyred4Sound(amp) Lessloss(pre) Black Sand Violet II(MWTP)
Headphones/Amp AKG K702
Racking HT cabinet...maple amp stands 
Tuning and Tweaks Herbie tube dampers(MWTP), Herbies Isolation between and below speakers, Blakholes under Pre and MWTP, Stillpoints under amps,Shakti stoneson amps and MWT

[Cheerwino]

Hopefully the experts will chime in regarding placement but the most WAF items that I think fit your current decor might be the Table Trap and Pillar Trap from GIK Acoustics or the Planter Traps or Mega Traps from RealTraps.

Probably the easiest wife sell is the GIK Art Panel. I don't have any yet, but my wife thinks these are really cool.

Kudos to these manufacturers for helping us maintain a happy home life! 

[davidrs]

Have you tried different placement positions for your speakers?

Most (not all) speakers benefit from 'breathing' room around them.

Based on your photograph, the speakers seem very close to the front wall, and one is nearly touching the entertainment center. Cannot imagine you are getting the best from them, purely based on where they are currently placed.

Also, the two easy chairs are blocking dispersion from the speakers.

I would fix this first and reassess where you are once you've done that.

[JLM]

Nice equipment and decor!!  Thanks for the images.

I agree that the speakers are way to close to the "entertainment" center and that the side chairs are blocking the speakers.  Ideally the speakers should have 3 - 5 feet clearances to the sides/front wall (absolute minimum 2  - 3 feet) and nothing in between or in front.  (Your equipment is way too nice to "waste" on a poor setup.)  I'm sure most of the bass boom will go away if you let those speakers breathe.

Next the room itself.  The large opening to the right acts to about double the room volume and provide an "unbalanced" presentation.  Most of the left side are hard surfaces (glass and brick) while the right side isn't even there (well it is, but it's roughly 8 feet farther away).  So you'll hear left side reflections, but not much right side.  And I don't like the fact that the room is exactly twice as long as it is tall (echo from floor to ceiling will double), but with carpet/furnishings it will be mitigated somewhat.

My 2nd recommendation would be to add absorption material to the left side (which would make that wall seem farther away, especially for the window closest to the speakers.  I'll leave it to the vendors here and others to figure out what would be effective and still have wife acceptance.  All I can think of would be "acoustic shutters" that you could close when listening.

My 3rd recommendation would be to hold off and see if you're satisfied.  Large rooms are always preferred to smaller ones, so you have a good start.  Once these two major issues have been addressed you'll have a much better idea of what direction you might want to go in next.  The ideal solution is always to have a large, perfectly proportioned room that is dedicated to listening.  Short of that domestic bliss will probably dictate keeping things pretty much as we see them (it does look quite nice/comfortable).

[scp2]

Thanks for all the responses..I know I have  issues. I prefer not to abandon the room and move to the basement...I am comfortable and just want to tweek more out of this room

I have moved the speakers around a little bit. I tried to keep them an equal distance from the side walls...hence one is closer to the ent center than the other.

The side chairs are not leaving the room...could move them back a little and will.

[JohnR]

How much further can you move the speakers out into the room?

[JLM]

If you listen seriously alone, can't you move the speakers/chairs to listen and then move them back?  Can you unplug the bass units when its not practical to move the speakers out (that should get rid of your bass boom).

And, can you loose that "entertainment" center?  It blocks the all important center image that helps stereo be stereo and would help the speakers breathe.

[bpape]

Based on the existing setup, treating those 2 front corners behind the speakers is likely your best course of action. 

At some point, you might also want to consider some bass absorption hung horizontally and up high on the rear wall behind the seating.

Bryan

[Big Red Machine]

A consensus is starting to build about moving the speakers out into the room.  Do Herbie's gliders allow this back and forth movement given you have the front spikes on carpet and the rear on hardwood?

Nice gear.  Nice furnishings and a real world problem most folks have to deal with.  I would bet the decorative art absorptive panels could be selected to match your room/house theme.

[scp2]

Based on the existing setup, treating those 2 front corners behind the speakers is likely your best course of action. 

At some point, you might also want to consider some bass absorption hung horizontally and up high on the rear wall behind the seating.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan..I kinda knew the front corners needed something...but up high on the rear wall...never thought of that.



As far as moving the speakers out in the room more..that would be a tough sell. Wifey's idea ...is all componets should be as visually unobtrusive as possible..ie huge entertainment center with all gear inside..she wasn't real happy when I upgraded to mono bloc amps and they were outside of the cabinet.

The speakers are on gliders...but are heavy and don't slide real easy...making back and forth idea tough.

[JLM]

As far as moving the speakers out in the room more..that would be a tough sell. Wifey's idea ...is all componets should be as visually unobtrusive as possible..ie huge entertainment center with all gear inside..she wasn't real happy when I upgraded to mono bloc amps and they were outside of the cabinet.

That's why there are mancaves (and I have three systems, one in the living room made up of my older stuff, one in the family room for HT, and one in my dedicated/designed mancave with the good stuff where I can listen to what/when/how loud as I want).   

The audiophile alternative to the mancave is headphones  or a new spouse.   

[giantsteps]

How much further can you move the speakers out into the room?

Oh boy! Where do I begin. JohnR is exercising diplomacy to the extreme 'cause the first thing that crossed my mind was that I would get rid of that monstrous cabinet between the speakers and bring them way out. My daughters think I'm a genius because many moons ago I explained to them that speakers are like trees....they need air to breathe. I went to great lengths showing them trees that were planted too close together and how they developed all squeezed and fighting for the sun. And I showed them magnificent drop dead gorgeous trees that were planted with air to breathe. And they heard for themselves..... at very tender ages ... .how much better the sound was by brief demonstrations of putting the speakers against the wall and bringing them out.

How much do you love your wife? If very positive I would disregard all the above and take her out to dinner tonight and say those.... three little words.

[drew54]

Usig the living room requires that you make certain sacrifices that negatively impact sound, like your entertainment ctr and speaker placement.  The left right asymmetry also doesnt help.

In addition to treating the left wall- and you can try stand-alone treatments that dont have to be nailed on, like Echobusters,

I think the best way to cure your bass problem is to bi-amp and eq the bass.  There's no analog source, so you can use digital EQ full range in front of your DAC (Behringer, dbx) or more expensive, between DAC and pre with DEQx or SigTech, or very expensive with a TacT preamp.

The TacT should be able to correct for every sonic problem- too much bass, too much left side, correct phase problems- in your room except dispersion patterns- these are generated by your speakers.

Good luck.

[davidrs]

If you cannot move the speakers and the front two chairs, then, as Drew54 advises, I would opt for a higher end digital room correction component solution - before treating the room - to make sure you are happy with the results. If you are, you can add room treatments and then digitally re-correct to get things dialed in even more.

Having said that, sometimes correcting a compromised situation, with compromised solutions just isn't worth it.

You have such nice gear it hurts to see you having to settle for seriously compromised sound.

Another approach would be to invest in a pair of higher end monitors with stands and move them out into the room when listening.

I would recommend higher stands so you can clear a sonic path above the furniture. Further, it will likely eliminate your bass issues, to a great degree, since you will not be going as low as with the VS - VRs or moving as much air.

Monitors (sealed or front porting) on top of the entertainment center, with a slight downward angle, might work too since there is open space above and in front of the entertainment center.

- David.

[davidrs]

A further possibility is going with a "lifestyle" approach and move to on-wall speakers / speaker panels for your 2 channel music (I'm guessing you might have a TV behind the center two doors of the entertainment center).

These could be positioned where the baskets with the dried plant arrangements are, on each side of the fire-place.

Several companies offer screens with art work to make the speakers become visually functional and attractive, and your wife could choose the finish and/or art work to match her needs.

You would get the sound. She would get the speakers to better integrate with your beautiful room.

[AB]

Could you put your speakers on the long wall ( each side of the fireplace) and have them fire out towards the right side opening? Could you then swing your listening couch to the right while arranging the various chairs (and furniture) to accommodate a more symmetrical listening "space"?

This would give you much greater left/right symmetry and help with the corner bass loading you have with your current set up.

[*Scotty*]

scp2,The  simplest solution for your boomy bass might be to move your couch  forward about 6in. to 1 foot. The boom might disappear just by moving  your head out of the standing wave node you are currently sitting in. 
 Scotty

[Wind Chaser]

If you can't move the speakers because the wife says so and there isn't another decent usable room in the house, you need to let her know that listening to music is very important to you and that your gear cannot perform well under the current circumstances; and then in all seriousness tell her that it may be time to sell the house.

To supplement your case you bring her along with her favorite piece of music to a friends house who has a good system properly set up and let her hear how much a difference that makes.  If that doesn't work, start giving the dog more some attention.  At least now you know who your friend is.

[Tone Depth]

I would relocate your monoblocks to the HT center if they will fit, or build some aesthetic ventilated enclosures for them and locate them more out of sight, maybe behind your speakers.  Then I would get some speaker grills for everything but critical listening, involving your wife in the looks for the amp cabinets and grill cloth selection. 

Next I suggest that you and your wife both listen to the speakers as you move them around, enlist her ears to help pick out the best-sounding position for the speakers, and then discuss the aspects of the sound you listen for so that she can listen for the same things.  Once you find the best-sounding position for the speakers, then discuss with your wife if she'd comfortable with the looks of the speakers located in that best-sounding position.  If not, find the position she likes aesthetically, and keep them there except for critical listening.  Move the speakers (w/rollers?) out when you want to listen.

Also discuss selling your VR-4 and buying some VR-33 or other speakers that will work well closer to the front wall, as another alternative.  By getting together on the same page, with both sound and aesthetics, you can probably work out some acceptable compromise.

...As far as moving the speakers out in the room more..that would be a tough sell. Wifey's idea ...is all componets should be as visually unobtrusive as possible..ie huge entertainment center with all gear inside..she wasn't real happy when I upgraded to mono bloc amps and they were outside of the cabinet.

[giantsteps]

scp2,The  simplest solution for your boomy bass might be to move your couch  forward about 6in. to 1 foot. The boom might disappear just by moving  your head out of the standing wave node you are currently sitting in. 
 Scotty

Yes. Of course.


Frank