[Cheerwino]

Hi all,

I've been lurking in the corners of the Acoustics Circle for a while trying to learn what I can and checking out all of the great resources from folks like Ethan, Bryan, Glenn and others. I've finally put together dimensions of my potential listening room for your consideration and would love to hear any thoughts regarding types of treatments and placements.

Here's a link to the room layout with 2D and 3D renderings:
http://www.floorplanner.com/projects/20523189-new-floorplan/
You may have to click on "dimensions" in one of the right-hand boxes to see the interior measurements. You can also click 3D in the right corner to rotate the room.
Here's an image:


The floor is bamboo, all the doorways are open with no doors and the opening between the two rooms is an archway. Ceilings 9 ft, room is 13' 6"w x 12'l (see interior dimensions on the image). It is not set up this way yet. I assumed it was best to orient the room as pictured for the best balance due to the windows and the huge opening between rooms.

Speakers are Horn Shoppe rear loaded horn speakers. That black speaker on the left of the sofa in the rendering is my attempt at a subwoofer, given the constraints of the design program.

Here are a few photos of the room as it is now. Note: the piano is currently in the proposed listening room, as seen in these photos. But it will eventually be moved to the connecting room (which has a table and chairs in these photos).







Budget is maybe $500 or so to start and then can add more over time. I like DIY projects but could go either way on this one. Would eventually like to treat the new piano room, too.

Thanks!

Guy

[Ethan Winer]

Openings are good for bass, though I'd still put bass traps in as many corners as is reasonable in the listening room part. And of course absorption at the loudspeaker reflection points. A bit more absorption (or diffusion) on the larger wall near the piano may help too.

--Ethan

[Housteau]

Those are two really nice looking rooms you have.  Your actual set-up room is small, but with that large opening in the front between the speakers, my guess is that it will sound like a much larger space.  That opening also removes a normal reflection point to the extreme.  You will probably get a great depth of image.

With rooms as nice as yours I would think aesthetics will also be important in your treatments.  For the higher frequencies I would try some common furnishings placed to scatter the soundwaves as much as possible.  Tall pieces of sculpture and artificial (or real) plants can help a lot and you may already have access to these.  You can also build diffusion devices for wall attachment that could very much resemble artwork.  I have to give a little more thought on how to add in bass trapping that goes well with everything else.  But, really fabric covered traps of various colors and shapes can also be made to fit well into a rooms like yours.   

[rollo]

 Why not reverse your set up putting the speakers at the window wall ?


charles

[Cheerwino]

Why not reverse your set up putting the speakers at the window wall ?


charles

Hi Charles: I'm certainly open to it and could do so. How do you think it would be better?

It's positioned as illustrated because the rear-loaded Horn Shoppe horn speakers benefit from room gain with much of the bass coming from rear folding (although I have a sub, too). So, I figured the other corners would work better. I was worried the doorway would suck out sound and present an uneven soundstage. Also, the speakers would be close to the doorway and be a tripping hazard for the kid & his rowdy friends. Finally, it would put my back to the piano and other room, so it might be cumbersome to rotate the sofa for a piano performance.

I'm open to it the other way, though. Thoughts?

Thanks,

--Guy

[rollo]

  If you put the speakers on the wall that shows the black sofa you will have corner placement as desired . the benifit is that the room becomes less of a square with the opening leading to the Piano room. as the sound of the piano opens to the dining room your system will act in the same fashion.
  I'll leave it up to our experts here like Ethan and Brian. Have fun .


charles

[Ethan Winer]

Why not reverse your set up putting the speakers at the window wall?

Good call! I'm embarrassed I missed that obvious and very large improvement. An opening behind you is vastly better than a reflecting wall or window.

--Ethan

[Cheerwino]

Thanks Ethan and Charles!

Below is the revised room. I still have a concern about the open doorway next to corner #1 (right speaker) and how this might negatively impact soundstage. There is a slight corner of about 8" and then then the entryway, which has no door. It's arched, so it would be quite expensive to add a nice door, too. Perhaps a moveable room screen would help?

I realize there are few perfect setups, so I just want to start off with the best orientation of these two rooms since we pretty much have a blank slate (other than the Steinway).

Thanks!
--Guy

[Cheerwino]

Those are two really nice looking rooms you have.  Your actual set-up room is small, but with that large opening in the front between the speakers, my guess is that it will sound like a much larger space.  That opening also removes a normal reflection point to the extreme.  You will probably get a great depth of image.

With rooms as nice as yours I would think aesthetics will also be important in your treatments.  For the higher frequencies I would try some common furnishings placed to scatter the soundwaves as much as possible.  Tall pieces of sculpture and artificial (or real) plants can help a lot and you may already have access to these.  You can also build diffusion devices for wall attachment that could very much resemble artwork.  I have to give a little more thought on how to add in bass trapping that goes well with everything else.  But, really fabric covered traps of various colors and shapes can also be made to fit well into a rooms like yours.

Thanks Housteau: Yes, this is the formal living and dining room in a rather formal house (formal in design, not in our habits or usual decor). So, it's not exactly the man cave (unfortunately). But, I'd like to have a bit of fun with it. We're thinking a kind of Moroccan look for the two rooms. It will start with moving that piano to the next room over and painting. We do have some large sculptures that could break up the space (nothing quite like your "extruding man", though--that's pretty cool).

I will make or purchase absorption panels before too long. Just trying to learn right now. Thanks for your suggestions.

Guy

[roscoeiii]

The family might object to the new sofa placement in front of the doorway.

[rollo]

The family might object to the new sofa placement in front of the doorway.

  Actually design wise it will act as a break into the next room.  We used that idea many times when i designed interiors. Try it you may like it. You will save tons on room treatment as well. The money you do spend will be well spent and affective.
  Try moving the couch a bit forward and put some Palm or Ficus behind the couch good for the Wife to get into action. Have fun and no fooling around on the couch


charles

[BobM]

There's still one problem with that front right speaker being right by the door. You won't be able to pull it out so far since it would then block the doorway, unless it was also brought closer to the center of the room, with an accompanying match inward on the left side I would think to keep things symmetrical.

Well, you would probably want that left speaker at least 2' from the side wall anyway.

[Cheerwino]

Thanks for the additional comments (except you, Charles  ) Yeah, it's frustrating because it's so close to being right. We can make either room the listening room and the piano goes in the other room (we're dropping the dining room since we never use it).

So, I wonder what y'all (yous guys) think of flopping Charles's suggested layout to the other room, like this:



There's still an open doorway problem. But, that is a regular size doorway leading to the kitchen and a door, tri-fold screen or bi-fold door could be added to create a corner (which I added in this illustration). It could just remain closed and locked off from the rest of the house, if that creates the best setup. It does introduce a large window on the right of the listening area. I could put absorption panels on hooks to hang there for listening sessions, if that would even out the presentation. Not sure if that would work to even it out, though.

Whaddya think?

--Guy

[steve2701]

I think the above layout will be the way to go - but I seriously doubt the speakers will be in the corners as they are shown. at least a couple of feet in  - if not the entire width of the doorway will give you a much better result.
I 'm betting they will end up between 7 & 8 feet apart to give you optimal results soundwise - therefore the L/H speaker will be 3 - 3.5 foot in from the sidewall. You will need to experiment with final position - but that wont be too far away from optimal I guess.
So if you can put a fixed door there - and a slideable bass trap will cover it very nicely - and a symetrical one could go in the other corner - that is if acoustic treatments are allowable.

[MaxCast]

Both rooms are pretty much the same with the top room coming out on top because you don't need to use the door (corner bass traps).  But which ever you choose swap the listening position with the speaker position twice.  Try the archway opening between the speakers and then behind your head.  Should be easy to do.  Of course try this after you get your absorption and diffusion products purchased.

[Housteau]

We do have some large sculptures that could break up the space (nothing quite like your "extruding man", though--that's pretty cool).

His name is Patrick, after his creator.  Since the long wall is used for speaker placement in my room, that places me fairly close to that back wall.  Patrick takes away some of the flatness to the wall directly behind me and the round and semi-round absorbers help with the rest.  The prints are glass covered, but I have them tilted up at the bottom to help prevent them from a direct forward reflection.  The back of that chair is a bit too tall coming up to ear level.  I am using a lower backed chair now.

With rollo's suggestion of having your back towards that open archway, you will eliminate the issue I had here and needed to deal with.

[Ethan Winer]

I still have a concern about the open doorway next to corner #1 (right speaker) and how this might negatively impact soundstage.

That should be fine, as shown in your earlier drawing. An open door is like a bass trap, and the opening is not at a reflection point so it shouldn't affect imaging much. If you pulled the speakers into the room a bit, that might help further.

--Ethan

[Cheerwino]

Thanks all. This has got me to thinking, perhaps it's better to reorganize the family room to be a better listening room. What do you think of this setup as a multipurpose listening room, TV and family room? It's 14'w x 21'l x9'h with 4' opening at the front between the speakers into another large room. There's a 3' open doorway to the right, fireplace on the left, windows at the back.

Sheep represent potential placement for absorption. I know they're hard to hang, but it fits my budget and we need the meat.


I don't have surround sound, got a Zvox to take care of TV audio needs and simple family music entertainment.

What do you think? Does this room have more potential for a quality room than the other two rooms I posted earlier?

[Housteau]

Sheep represent potential placement for absorption. I know they're hard to hang, but it fits my budget and we need the meat.

Sheep might get a bit noisy, especially the ones you need to elongate and flatten out .

One thing is for certain.  You definately have a lot of options.  It really is hard to tell which solution will be best until you actually try it.  What looks good mathmatically and on a drawing may not turn out exactly the way you might expect.  I have seen rooms that on first look I thought would sound terrible, but in reality were much better than I would have ever thought possible.