Quality and reasonably priced acoustical panels?

gkinberg · « **on:** 3 Jan 2011, 09:45 pm »

Hello all,

First post in the acoustics circle. I am looking for quality yet cheep acoustical panels to treat my room. I will probably be in the market for around 6 panels of 2’x4’. I have seen wildly differing prices. I am considering getting the bare corning 703 acoustical board and my wife and I coving them ourselves so that they look more like décor treatments rather than acoustical treatments.

I was thinking of getting 2 in thick panels as our system is not very base heavy… yet. My room is very live and I’m hoping to get better detail and refinement out of my system with room treatments without breaking the bank.

I am hoping to pay no more than around $100 for 6 panel of corning 703 2 in board. Is this reasonable and if so, which company is typically recommended. Thanks a lot for any input.

Garth

bpape · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 10:29 pm »

That price is more than reasonable depending on where you live and what the shipping would be like.

If you'd post a sketch of your room and maybe some pics, it would be easier to make recommendations for how best to address it within the budget.

Bryan

gkinberg · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 11:55 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 3 Jan 2011, 10:29 pm

That price is more than reasonable depending on where you live and what the shipping would be like.

If you'd post a sketch of your room and maybe some pics, it would be easier to make recommendations for how best to address it within the budget.

Bryan

I will try to do that later, thanks.

drphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 01:24 am »

I think it's hard to beat what GIK can do for you on their premade panels. I'm on a pretty meager budget, but once I added it all up, it was a better deal for me to buy their finished panels than try to DIY. Now, I don't know what you consider visually more of a "decor treatment than an acoustic panel" I personally think my lillac colored panels look like a sort of minimalist art work than a sound panel. I mean...it's not like a bunch of sonex foam stapled to the wall. But I live in a modern style loft space, not a typical house. So my asthetic taste may vary from the norm.

From what I understand, for the foam panel to work optimally it must be in a frame that allows it to be held away from the wall by an inch or so. In other words, you can't just wrap 703 and slap it on the wall and expect it to give the same result as the commercial product. Once I realized I'd have to build the wood frame, I decided, I'd just rather pay to have it done.

But glad to hear you're looking at room treatments. Believe me, it makes a huge difference. I had major 'slap' echo problems, and 6 GIK panels worked wonders. In some ways, I'm sort of lucky, my listening space is very big by most standards, so I don't have to worry about bass trapping issues, which are much harder (and expensive) to treat.

timind · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 01:35 am »

I agree with Drphoto concerning the cost benefits of DIY panels. I went that route for 2 of my panels and it wound up costing more than I expected, not to mention the time spent.
The biggest positive with my DIY is my grandson helped so we spent some quality time together. And we painted them with a pattern that I like. People always ask about them which makes us both proud.
Honestly though, the professionally built panels look better to me.

steve2701 · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 01:37 pm »

Quote

you can't just wrap 703 and slap it on the wall and expect it to give the same result as the commercial product.

Actually you can - it just depends on exactly what you want said panel to be.
A 2" thick piece of '703' wrapped in open weave cloth makes a great first reflection point absorber ( but would do zero for bass) where as 2 x 4" thick 705 stuck together and wrapped in open weave cloth (if placed behind the listening position in a corner) or faced with kraft then material and put into a front corner makes a great bass trap.

Rear corner bass trap - 2 x 4" thick '705' wrapped in cream muslin:-

You can always make them plain or rather more interesting as well:-

Cheerwino · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 02:29 pm »

Nice trim! Do you have a carpenter on staff or are you the trim carpenter?

This gives me some ideas on my room. I was thinking the main reason to have a frame around the fiberboard was to keep it from sagging and offer a good mounting surface. But caps could accomplish the same thing.

Is there more frame behind your corner bass trap under the muslin? How is it attached to the wall?

Thanks for posting, Steve!

gkinberg · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 02:39 pm »

Thanks for the replies. I didn’t know that about the major benefit of keeping the panels off of the walls with wood frames. That may change my desire for DIY. I had hoped to print or paint images on canvas and wrap that over the panel but maybe not.

My listening room is open to the whole 1650 sq ft house. If I close all of the doors then my “listening room” is at least 8000 cubic feet and my main speakers go down to 40 hz so I’m not too concerned about base yet. However, I intend to get one or two rythmik F15 or something equivalent in the not too distant future. My main concern right now is probably first reflections treatments and to muffle my major slap echo issue.

Thanks again, Garth

Cheerwino · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 02:49 pm »

Garth,

It's my understanding that you don't need anything elaborate to get the panels a bit off the wall. I've seen folks use long screw hooks and a piece of wood or foam to move the panels an inch or two off the wall. It could be as simple as a long screw hook at the top and a bit of styrofoam as a spacer at the bottom to move the panel off the wall.

Some of the commercially produced bass traps have a gap built into the back so they can be hung flush (which you could do DIY, as well). But, I haven't seen anything to suggest one way is better than the other (enclosed, framed gap vs open gap). It seems to be personal aesthetic preference. Could be wrong.

steve2701 · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 03:11 pm »

Glad to post some help if I can.
Honestly - it is as difficult as you make it, while I am said 'trimmer' this is the first project like this I had ever undertaken - and it grew into something rather more major than I ever imagined - but the results, largely thanks to Ethan, are just what I wanted.

With regard to fibreglass becoming floppy - well they do if you go below '703' in weight, and they need some extra support. 703 and 705 have not moved at all - even when placed at an angle of 35' off vertical.

To cover the corner bass traps I used 2 pieces of 705, very lightly glued together with spray glue, covered the visible area with 2" of white polyester (no acoustic impact whatsoever) this helps with two things - hides the colour of the rockwool and also helps ease the fabric covering it.

They are merely placed on a 3/4" mdf shelf, then faced with the trim - which extends 3/4" over the rockwool to help hold in place. The same was then done at the top. It hasn't budged in 2 years.

Making the trap:-

Garth - you really need to just read a little more and you are there if you have a little bit of diy skill, honestly.
The reason you put a space behind a trap is so that it is slightly more effective at lower levells - ie, you are getting more trap for free by spacing away from the wall.

My first reflection points were made to do a little bit for high bass as well as the highs, and also to be adjustable in placement:-

if you want to see the whole build project and all of the traps and how they were made :-
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1984380/Wall_boundary_trapping#Post1984380

Ethans FAQ on the first page will answer most of your questions - along with plenty you haven't even thought of yet!
One further hint that may help. When the covering fabric is set in place - (I helped stretch mine with a paper scraping blade used to strip wallpaper) it will likely be covered with creases. These are very easy to get rid of. Simply get yourself a water mister (like one of the hand plunger things you use to spray buggs on a plant) and very lightly spray the fabric with clean water. As it dries the moisture pulls the creases out of the fabric as it stretches back to size.

Voncarlos · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 06:22 pm »

If you don't want to use a frame, than this item might do the trick: http://rotofast.com/instructions_snap_on.htm
Just use a longer screw with a spacer to get the gap you need.

Or use this one with a long screw-hook. This is of course designed to be used with rigid fiberglass panels.

Carlos

rbbert · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 09:46 pm »

You should look at http://acoustimac.com

valvesnvinylfan · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Jan 2011, 11:38 pm »

+1 for Acoustimac, I've purchased all of my bass traps and panels from them--great service, prices, and quick shipping.

gkinberg · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 07:01 am »

Thank you guys for the input. Acoustimac is on my list. Gik is also on my list although a little more expensive than Acoustimac. Finally, Realtraps seems too expensive for me. I'm sure that Realtraps has a great product but like most things in audio, you get deminishing returns as you spend more.
I'd like to go with the least expensive provided they have a quality product. Is Acoustimac considered to be a good option or is Gik head and shoulders better?

Right now, my system is not bass heavy so I was planning on going for 24" X 48" X 2" panels, probably three to five of them. One behind each speaker, rear ported, and one to three behind the listening position. Even though my system is not bass heavy, I eventually intend to get one Rythmik 15" sub or maybe two (or equivalent sub). My listening room is huge so I don't think it will be overkill; it is at least 8000 cubic ft because my living room is attached to an adjoining lounge, kitchen, dining room and hall way. That being said, does this seem like the right size and number of panels?

adol290 · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Jan 2011, 02:12 pm »

How about ATS acoustics. They are reasonably priced.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

gkinberg · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 09:35 pm »

They seem to be reasonably priced as well. I guess I'm looking for the best bang for the buck.

kip_ · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Feb 2011, 03:13 pm »

A friend of mine attempted to order from Acoustimac (DIY frames and insulation) and he was shipped the wrong thickness and then spent the next three months trying to get them correct it. YMMV of course.

DTB300 · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Feb 2011, 03:28 pm »

I give a thumbs up

to GIK as their products are nice and their service and support is also superb. Bryan and Glenn are also here to help.

If you want to DIY, another company which is great to deal with is:

http://sensiblesoundsolutions.com/

They have Fiberglass, Acoustical Cotton (my favorite), Mineral Wool and many other products.

gkinberg · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Feb 2011, 07:04 pm »

I am leaning toward buying premade acoutic panels. However, DIY is still in the back of my mind. What type of fabric can be used to cover the panels? Some sites state that they are using acoustically transparent fabric. Is this a gimic buz phrase or is this a real consideration? If so, what types of fabric is acoustically transparant? Going to a local fabric store, I saw many different prints that I thought were very atractive but didn't know if they would be appropriate.

In addition, it seems that panels absorb more low frequencey as they increase in thickness. Does the same hold true for density? As the density of the absorbtion material in the panel increases, so does the low frequency absorbtion? Will a thicker and or denser panel change how it interacts with the rest of the frequncy spectrum with respect to a thinner panel? My main need is for first reflections treatment rather than bass. So I don't want to go overboard on the thickness if it will somehow hinder the absorbtion of the rest of the spectrum.

Thanks for any advise. Garth

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Feb 2011, 02:01 am »

Well Garth, it's been almost a week and nobody has replied to your last set of questions.
I suppose you're fair game.

I'm making (6) panels for a buddy of mine. Here's an honest to God breakdown of the exact cost of materials I (he) has incurred so far. The only "edit" is the price of the 2" 703.
Let's just say I "found some". You've done your homework and know how much it costs

Here's a few choices for acoustically transparent fabric:
These are the fabrics I've used on my panels. They're typical speaker fabric material that's about $7 per yard @ 70" wide. I suppose it's safe to say that fabric made to cover speakers would be "acoustically transparent" enough for panels and traps.

White:

Gray:

Black:

If you're fancy, this is the vintage guitar speaker grill cloth. It's about $50 a yard.

The tally to build (6) 2'x4' panels:
$?? - "703"
$130 - wood and stain from Lowe's (1"x 4"x 8' pine boards)
$67 - 6 yards (70" wide) fabric and a can of 3M spray adhesive from PartsExpress.com

I had some 3/8" plywood scrap to encase the 703 before it's wrapped in fabric so that's not in the total cost. But a sheet of 3/8 is near insignificant.
Also, notice the 1"x4" planks of wood? That will set the panels away from the wall almost 2".

Regarding your second paragraph...That's best left to the professionals to answer. I am not, nor do I play one on TV.
but here's my take:
Your first sentence is dead on; They absorb more with thickness. Yes.
Regarding density, think of a 4" thick panel of glass. That's not going to absorb much and be highly reflective. So, density can be work against you. If what you need is work on your first reflection points, then 2" panels are what you need.

Hope that helps.
Bob