Thinking about a Loricraft RCM

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 03:04 am »

Quote from: Douger on 13 Jun 2011, 02:54 am

Hi Laura!
You have exquisite taste and intelligence!

You are also inspiring me, but since I am buying Tannoy Canterbury SE's I may not have enough discretionary fundage for a while...

Regards,

Doug

Hi Doug,

Thanks! Nice to hear from you. I really like the Loricraft. It is quiet and beats the VPI in cleaning.

Nice purchase with the Tannoys. Are you going to be at RMAF?

Douger · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 11:03 am »

Yes, I have not registered yet but I am going to...

Adults don't get enough time in a candy store as it is!

Doug

rcag_ils · « **Reply #22 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 08:11 pm »

What kind of social status do we have to have to be able to afford something like this?

Mikeinsacramento · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 08:58 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 13 Jun 2011, 08:11 pm

What kind of social status do we have to have to be able to afford something like this?

If you have to ask....

toocool4 · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 09:44 pm »

Considering what it does it’s not that expensive. This record cleaner is the price of a fairly good cartridge, now consider using the record cleaner to increase the life of your cartridge.
If you have spent thousands on your cartridge, you can now see that the record cleaner will soon pay for itself.

chester_audio · « **Reply #25 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 10:01 pm »

Social status? That was rather pointedly phrased.

Feeling a little financially challenged?

Next to a Keith Monk, there is no better rcm available than Loricraft. And, if one has several times more invested in analog gear and software it really does make sense. I'm saving my pennies.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 03:53 am »

Quote

Social status? That was rather pointedly phrased. Feeling a little financially challenged?

Basically I wanted to ask what do you guys do for a living to be able to afford a 2k+ record cleaner. Because all I've really seen are two people going back and forth, you know, "oh, my record cleaner is real nice" "well, mine is nice too"

It makes me wonder, that's all.

By the way, what's wrong with asking about your social status? I mean, did you pay for that record cleaner with your child support money from your rich ex or what? Or are you related to Mr. Gate? Or did you win the lottery? It's not a everyday toy for everyone, you know....

Or, did you have to laugh at others misfortune, if I was really feeling the financially challenge?

chester_audio · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 02:33 pm »

In all seriousness, I apologize if I came off as insensitive. Perhaps my thinking is not in tune, but I do not equate social status and ability to write bigger numbers on a check. That just struck me humorously.

Personally, I'm an engineer and my wife is a teaching assistant in special needs classrooms. I worked my way through school in my thirties while supporting my wife and two sons. You might imagine that I've never had time for socializing so I can't claim any social status. Who am I kidding, I've never been a socializer and all I know about fashion is 100% cotton.

Today, we're empty nesters. No grandkids to spend money on, just trying to pay down the mortgage and save for possible retirement.

My system is not all that expensive. Maybe $30K, but I've built some of it myself and it has taken me close to a decade to get it where it is. How do I pay for this hobby? Well, here is one example. I buy a new pickup truck about every 10-12 years and drive the wheels off of it. I could do even better these days given the state of the used car market, but I'm already two years into this decade's ride. I brown bag everyday but Friday's, our thoughts on eating out is to get pizza or Chinese food. We wait for movies to hit the premium channels but occasionally hit Net-Flix.

Any of this sound familiar?

edit: I should give my wife more credit. She was supporting herself, me and the boys while I was going to school. I had no time for anything but study and a full-time job.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 05:54 pm »

Quote

My system is not all that expensive. Maybe $30K, but I've built some of it myself and it has taken me close to a decade to get it where it is. How do I pay for this hobby? Well, here is one example. I buy a new pickup truck about every 10-12 years and drive the wheels off of it. I could do even better these days given the state of the used car market, but I'm already two years into this decade's ride. I brown bag everyday but Friday's, our thoughts on eating out is to get pizza or Chinese food. We wait for movies to hit the premium channels but occasionally hit Net-Flix.

Same here, I am an engineer as well, and my wife's staying home taking care of the kids. I drive a rusty old Toyota, brown bag every other day, if I had more time, I'd have brown bagged everyday. I support my hobby by buying used gear. And I think I am better off than most.

When someone said the VPI 17 sucked and the new 2K+ record cleaner is wonderful it makes you wonder how many record cleaners Loricraft sold in a year. I am sure there are more of us that can afford a 2K+ record cleaner, but just not financially feasible, even for the "better off" crowd.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 14 Jun 2011, 05:54 pm

When someone said the VPI 17 sucked and the new 2K+ record cleaner is wonderful

I never said the VPI 17 sucked, just that the Loricraft was quieter, the vacuum had more suction, and did a better job of deep cleaning the record. The VPI 17 is a good RCM, but IMO the Loricraft is better and the improvement is not subtle. I recleaned some used records originally cleaned with the VPI 17 and noticed an audible reduction in surface noise resulting in more detail and clarity in the music. Before I made the purchase I "talked" to several Loricraft owners and became convinced that it was worth the extra dollars, both in terms of listening enjoyment and protecting my investment in records and cartridge. I bought my first record in 1959 (Buddy Holly on Coral Records) and have an extensve collection of 60s, 70s and 80s records that could use a really good cleaning.

BTW, I have a law degree and have been working for 37+ years. The kids are long gone and involved in their own careers and family which provides a little more discretionary money for audio and golf.

Rob S. · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 08:02 pm »

interesting discussion here. got me thinking lots about my audio spending, my social status, etc.... the loricraft had me intrigued a few years ago when I watched Mike fremer clean a record on it on his vinyl setup DVD. thought it sounded fantastic, but was sure it was out of my price range. Currently it's not looking all that expensive anymore. i'm seeing the value in it. not much has changed in my social status since then- still a SAHD and PT swim coach. I think it's just the hobby has sucked me in big time. I still buy as much used equipment as possible and buy mostly the high value ticket items, nothing in the top few %. Some people will always get their kicks buying cost no object equipment, me... I'd rather get 95% of the way there for 1/5 the cost, or so I think.

Going from the VPI unit to the Loricraft, does it save any time in cleaning records? What other expenses do you need besides fluid for the machine?

I've been doing a wash, wash/rinse cycle on one wand and and rinse cycle on another wand for a 3 step cleaning process with a disc doctor fluid on my VPI 16.5 and seems to be great. I don't like all the rinsing of brushes, wands, etc. i still have only cleaned about 1/4 of my collection. if it cleans better, is any quicker, or has less trips to the sink to rinse scrub brushes and wands than the 16.5, I think I could be persuaded to buy one.

Rob S.

osageaudioproducts · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 09:19 pm »

Hi Folks,

It's not often that I get involved in any of the discussions on an audio forum because, more often that not, they turn into arguments. However someone alerted me to this one because a couple of folks that I know where involved. Being in the audio business now, after having been involved as a customer first for 40 years, may give me a bit of insight to speak from on this old, tired issue of someone spending more for a piece of stereo equipment that may be the norm, or more than what seems reasonable.

Listening to music and messing around with stereo equipment are hobbies. None of us need any of this stuff to exist. Looking at it that way, we are all wasting our money. But nearly everyone wants something to do with their leisure time for relaxation and as their personal reward for working all week. Some chose weekend or resort homes, some choose gourmet dining, some choose high-end stereo gear, and around my neck of the woods many choose boats, ATVs, and that sort of thing.

So I think a fair comparison is this: Why would it be so far out for anyone to buy a $4000.00 record cleaning machine or own a $50,000.00 stereo system when right down the road from me they sell, on a daily basis, $12,000.00 ATVs, $40,000.00 pontoon boat rigs, and $60,000.00 bass boat setups? I can tell you for sure that there are more of these items sold at those prices than what could ever be dreamed of for high-end audio gear.

The point in this commentary is that people of all types pick what they want, and what they can afford, for their leisure time activities. It's not for me to question, or for anyone else to question, what they chose to indulge in, or to what degree. It would be easy for me to say that a guy is nuts to buy a $60,000.00 bass boat. It's easy because I don't want one. If I did want one my commentary would be just a little different.

I don't want a new big screen TV or a new four-wheel-drive pickup either, but every indication is that lots of people do, and they spend big money on them, and make commitments of payments with interest to own them.

I'm not trying to trivialize the purchase of high-end and expensive stereo equipment with these comments, but it is certainly clear that many people will spend as much or more money on a variety of other items for their personal entertainment. And anyone could probably make a case for or against any of these items if they were to chose to waste their time doing so.

Happy listening.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:10 pm »

Quote from: osageaudioproducts on 14 Jun 2011, 09:19 pm

Hi Folks,

It's not often that I get involved in any of the discussions on an audio forum because, more often that not, they turn into arguments. However someone alerted me to this one because a couple of folks that I know where involved. Being in the audio business now, after having been involved as a customer first for 40 years, may give me a bit of insight to speak from on this old, tired issue of someone spending more for a piece of stereo equipment that may be the norm, or more than what seems reasonable.

Happy listening.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC

Jim,

I, maybe that's we speaking for some of the other in-tune Facs for each circle at AudioCircle, wouldn't and shouldn't allow any heated argument(s) to break out.

Little tiffs, well that happens in life, but the bigger forest fires tend to be stamped out before needing the Fire Marshall

So, feel free to speak candidly here - folks knowing this in advance tends to make for many more substantive convo's here. That's my hope for The Vinyl Circle, at least

What I tend to see as dust-ups here are usually Engineers quibbling over nuances too small that to the rest of us swill here doesn't mean a whole hill of beans.

Sorry Engineers, but it's true, you joust about funny things to my marketing-oriented brain. Not ALL of you, of course, but quite a few of you

Folks - if something is important to you - then it's important. How or what you spend your money on is at your discretion. Just don't go asking for a 'bailout' if you get in way over your head financially

John / Facilitator

richidoo · « **Reply #33 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:37 pm »

Is the cleaning advantage of the Loricraft due to its greater suction, which removes more dirty fluid before it can dry? The string bearing is an ingenius idea.

Congrats on the new toy Laura!

osageaudioproducts · « **Reply #34 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:47 pm »

Hi John,

I appreciate your reply, but I wasn't referrring to quibbling and such but rather to put downs of people who spend more than the norm, or lots of money, on stereo equipment. The point is as old as the internet and has been beaten and stomped more than a hill of fire ants. To draw a parallel, I have spent a lot of time visiting Bass Pro stores and not once, ever, have I seen or heard even one person complaining about the people buying high-price outdoors gear. I don' recall ever hearing anyone complaining about people buying Ferraris

By the way, I'm an engineer.

This audio gear thing reminds me a lot of the smoking in restaurants thing. And I don't smoke, by the way. With all the years I spent on the road I was in lots of restaurants all over the USA. I can't tell you how many times I would be waiting in line for a table and someone would walk in, hold their nose up and the air and sniff, and then ask the host or hostess if someone was smoking in the restaurant and make a scene. I can completely understand how smoking is harmful and can be very harmful for some people to be near, but what always struck me as funny is that never once, ever, did I see anyone walk into a restaurant and ask if the kitchen help had washed their hands after they went to the bathroom.

In other words, based on what I have observed, certain things are more "popular" to attack than others. High-end stereo gear seems to be on the attack list.

Happy listening.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #35 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:51 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 14 Jun 2011, 10:37 pm

Is the cleaning advantage of the Loricraft due to its greater suction, which removes more dirty fluid before it can dry? The string bearing is an ingenius idea.

Congrats on the new toy Laura!

Thanks richidoo.

I think the cleaning advantage is due to greater suction created by a more powerful vacuum pump and the small hole at the end of the arm tube with the nylon string to keep the lips of the suction arm off of the record. The single point of contact tracks the record so there are no gaps in the suction that I sometimes experienced with the vacuum tube wand on the VPI. Works much better on records that are not perfectly flat. Also, the thread advances so there is no chance of cross contamination since the lips of the suction arm never touch the record.

Laura

jtwrace · « **Reply #36 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 14 Jun 2011, 03:53 am

Basically I wanted to ask what do you guys do for a living

Maybe this thread will be of interest to you then.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79617.0

TONEPUB · « **Reply #37 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 10:58 pm »

Who's to define what "normal" is? How anyone who chooses to spend their money on anything is their own business. If you've got a couple hundred records, a $2,000 record cleaner probably doesn't make the best of sense, but if you have thousands of records, some or many of them rare, you've spent a lot of money on software.

At that point it makes great sense to buy something like the Loricraft to protect that investment.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 09:47 pm »

No one's putting down anyone for spending a lot of money on whatever they want, so please do not overreact and be defensive. One thing I have to say though is a good engineer always make things work with the lowest possible cost, that got me curious about who in the world would make a record cleaner that cost 2K+, could it be over engineering?

I have nothing against people spending a fortune on audio eq. if they can afford it, more power to them.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #39 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 09:53 pm »

Quote

Who's to define what "normal" is? How anyone who chooses to spend their money on anything is their own business. If you've got a couple hundred records, a $2,000 record cleaner probably doesn't make the best of sense, but if you have thousands of records, some or many of them rare, you've spent a lot of money on software.

At that point it makes great sense to buy something like the Loricraft to protect that investment.

Good point on the spending money part, but keep in mind that even a million dollar record cleaner would not offer any protection for your records, every time your play your record, it wears out due to friction.