[golfugh]

I'm looking for a pre/pro to replace my aging Nuforce AVP-17 (they are not going to make another pre/pro - unless I'm mistaken).  The "new" pre/pro will be used in a predominately multichannel music setup, but with a mix of HT movie/TV use.  This is my primary/only setup as a combined 2-channel/multichannel music/HT.

The system is strictly a 5.1 setup soon to be 5.2.  Current system is in my signature.

Desire

What I'm looking for is the best multichannel music setup I can get that will also work with HT.

I need excellent bass management/EQ, as my primary source for both is the Oppo BDP-83SE (soon to add the BDP-95).

It should have a great multichannel analog stage (I know...), as well as HDMI connectivity for 2D display purposes only.  The reason for the multichannel analog stage is I'd like to discern for myself which I prefer - HDMI in with EQ or multi analog in with player BM.

Like to have 4 HDMI in/2 out (min of 2 in/1 out).

XLR pre/outs preferred, but not required.

Would love to have standby display pass through.

I'm not averse to using a receiver as pre/pro.

Used is fine.

Budget of about $3000.

Here's what I've been looking at (no particular order)

Denon 4311 (too many problems) - XT32
Anthem MRX 500/700 - reduced ARC
Yamaha A3000 - enhanced YPAO
Integra 80.2 - XT32
Marantz AV-7005 - XT (pro capable)
NAD T175HD - XT (pro capable)
NAD M15HD (used) - Aud pro only
Cary Cinema 11A (used or great buy) - PEQ

If you've used or auditioned please pass on your assessments.  For that matter, chime in if you have any recommendation other than what is listed.

Thanks
Mark

[John Casler]

You might also find a "used" BRYSTON SP 1.7 or SP 2, and then get a good prolevel HDMI switcher like a ZEKTOR (you might be better served keeping the video separate for audio quality)

[golfugh]

John

I've looked at those, but would like to have HDMI internal to the processor (HDMI audio specifically).  Separate video processing is a different matter - would prefer video pass through, aka the Cary.

Mark

[golfugh]

I'll try to bump this for any further suggestions:

Here's a thought, let me know if I'm way off base.

Let's disregard HDMI ins/outs and go with a NAD M15 refurbished from Spearit Sound.  No, it doesn't have any form of auto EQ, but the analog stage is supposed to be outstanding.  Excellent bass management (only occurs via digital ins), true bypass on the multichannel ins and let the Oppo do the bass management (not good, but better than nothing).

The problem I have is that the bass management in the Nuforce AVP-17 is not a true bypass multi-in.  I have to zero out everything in the bass management of the Nuforce and let the Oppo do the work.  This leaves any digital in without any bass management.

With the savings (M15 is $1149 refurb'd) I can pick up an Oppo BDP-95 (currently have a BDP-83SE) and all in for about $2000 total.  Or, stick with the 83SE and only out $1150.

Kicker is - only have a 90 day warranty on the M15.

Thoughts, suggestions??

Mark

[golfugh]

I'm open to any thought or suggestion!

[Phil A]

John

I've looked at those, but would like to have HDMI internal to the processor (HDMI audio specifically).  Separate video processing is a different matter - would prefer video pass through, aka the Cary.

Mark

When you're talking HDMI audio are you referring to 2-channel or multi-channel?  I see you have a DAC and 2-channel is not a problem with a player like an Oppo that can convert SACD to PCM there are devices like  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

I talked my friend into one vs. a $3k SACD player and he could not be happier (he has a BDP-83SE which he is going to sell and get the BDP-95 for the 2 HMDI outs - one to the TV and one to the audio de-embedder going to his DAC).

Don't forget things like the AV7005 if you go balanced have reverse phase on the XLRs.

If you're open to refurbs - don't forget accessories4less.com.  I liked the Integra so much for HT, I yanked the recent Pioneer 1120 from the secondary basement system (and put it on the 4.1 computer system) and bought a refurb Onkyo 1000
I decided to go with a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass and picked up a used Integra DTC 9.8 at a really great deal. 

[skunark]

The Bryston SP2 and McIntosh C45 are both audio only multi-channel pre-amps with bass management and can even be used with the two-channel inputs. You can view the user manuals online for more details as I believe they are slightly different.  Both I think you can find on audiogon if you are patient for under 3k.   Perhaps owners of those could discuss the bass management options in detail.

Audio Research MPS-1 and the Parasound P7 are other alternatives, but I don't believe they have any bass management.

[golfugh]

Phil

Talking multichannel music 75%/movies 10%/TV 15% only with the processor.  2 channel is handled via the Oppo/Bolder mod'd Touch and Wyred DAC1/Wyred STP-SE.  Multi-channel is HT bypass through the Nuforce AVP-17/STP-SE right now.

Multichannel is SACD/DVD-A through the Oppo to the Nuforce.

I'm aware of the AV7005 phase inversion issue; if you stay solely RCA or XLR - non issue, but if you mix there is a problem.

I've looked at Integra's and have the 80.2 on my list, but want the best multichannel music platform I can get for the money.  That's why I'm looking at the NAD M15.

Thoughts?

[golfugh]

The Bryston SP2 and McIntosh C45 are both audio only multi-channel pre-amps with bass management and can even be used with the two-channel inputs. You can view the user manuals online for more details as I believe they are slightly different.  Both I think you can find on audiogon if you are patient for under 3k.   Perhaps owners of those could discuss the bass management options in detail.

Audio Research MPS-1 and the Parasound P7 are other alternatives, but I don't believe they have any bass management.

Would love to have the AR MPS, but need digital in for TV, ergo a processor of some nature.  SP-2 would work along with a McIntosh MX-120, but .... money becomes an issue with both.  Neither are cheap on the used market.

[Phil A]

Phil

Talking multichannel music 75%/movies 10%/TV 15% only with the processor.  2 channel is handled via the Oppo/Bolder mod'd Touch and Wyred DAC1/Wyred STP-SE.  Multi-channel is HT bypass through the Nuforce AVP-17/STP-SE right now.

Multichannel is SACD/DVD-A through the Oppo to the Nuforce.

I'm aware of the AV7005 phase inversion issue; if you stay solely RCA or XLR - non issue, but if you mix there is a problem.

I've looked at Integra's and have the 80.2 on my list, but want the best multichannel music platform I can get for the money.  That's why I'm looking at the NAD M15.

Thoughts?

I have not had tons of time with the Integra on music.  I do have a Modwright Oppo BDP-83.  I have it connected both HDMI and analog and have not even gotten around to calibrate levels via the analog ins at this point.    I've just made lots of changes and switched lots of things around.  What I heard was not bad sounding but it is no Bryston.  I have an SP 1.7 (for sale now).  I do have the bedroom and main systems interconnected as they back to each other.  I have a Marantz SP6003 in the bedroom and use a Bryston 3BST as the left and right channel.  Over time, I will get to more comparisons (I have an Oppo BDP-93) in the bedroom system too.  I only paid $600 for the Integra DTC 9.8.  My first Craigslist find.  I decided that a good 2-channel preamp with HT bypass is better for me.  I probably won't go 3D any time soon in the main or bedroom systems.  My main system projector is only HDMI 1.2.  If I did it somewhere it would be the basement system where I have the Onkyo 1000 and a PS3 among various other things.  When I got the projector down there almost 3 years back, I did not go real high end (720p Sony LCD) as the system most often gets used on weekends for stuff like football as the main room is too bright for daytime TV.  So I may in the next year or two go for a basement projector upgrade.  I went with the Onkyo as I'm doing 8.1 down there.  It's more like my fun HT system.  I found an easy code to use with my old Oppo DV980H down there to make it region free (I had one region free DVD I wanted to play) and I will be getting the Emotiva DAC probably in 3 weeks and use the HDMI audio de-embedder with it too.  I'd like to upgrade the basement system more video wise and use it more than I have.

[Phil A]

Would love to have the AR MPS, but need digital in for TV, ergo a processor of some nature.  SP-2 would work along with a McIntosh MX-120, but .... money becomes an issue with both.  Neither are cheap on the used market.

The SP1.7 is tons cheaper and does have the identical analog section as the SP2.  The SP1.7 can be upgraded to an SP2 (in fact it is probably cheaper to get an SP1.7 and get the upgrade done and you have the full warranty vs. what is left on the SP2).  Actually to be honest with an Oppo Blu-Ray like I used the SP1.7, I really don't see why anyone would get the SP2 over the SP1.7.  It does sound good via the analog inputs but with either the SP2 or SP1.7 someone who wants the more flexible bass management you can get with a newer unit has to live with a bit less on that front.

[golfugh]

Phil
Thanks for the thoughts on the 1.7/2.0. A little more to consider now that you mentioned the upgrade path, etc.
Mark

[Phil A]

Phil
Thanks for the thoughts on the 1.7/2.0. A little more to consider now that you mentioned the upgrade path, etc.
Mark

Mark, the other factor with the SP 1.7/2.0 is that they both have 5.1 multi-channel inputs.  Yes, you can do standard DD or DTS sources from DVD in 7.1 (my main room has been 6.1 due to configuration for some time) but if you want to do more than 5.1 hi-rez audio from Blu-Ray then either may not be the right choice.  The SP2 gives you slightly better processing from standard DD or DTS sources on DVD (or Blu-Ray).  As noted, they both have the same analog sections.  I didn't see the need to upgrade.  I'm not sure at this point with the 6 yr. old (give or take a bit) digital sections of the SP2 whether I would want to pay that premium for used piece with limited warranty remaining when you could upgrade those sections from the SP1.7 at a cheaper total price with the 5 year warranty on those circuits.

[golfugh]

Based on room constraints, I will never get beyond a 5.2 setup.  So, the 1.7 or the NAD may fit the bill.
Mark

[Phil A]

Here is the details of what is involved:

http://www.bryston.com/BrystonSite05/pdfs/PREAmplifiers/SP1_7toSP2Upgrade.pdf

I use four subs in the main system.  Two Rel Storm IIIs for stereo music and distributed ".1."  A Rel Q150 for the center and a Rel Strata III for the rears.  Most of that is for when I listen to multi-channel music.  I had the originally connected with an adapter for 2 RCA outs for HT no problem and then made a custom Y connector for balanced outs.  For multi-channel music the Bryston is wonderful.  I do prefer stereo from most discs.  If multi-channel music was a priority, I'm not sure if I could live without it.  It sounded great defining 5 full range speakers for music.

[Regalma]

I just bought an Arcam AVR 600 and I am very happy with it. It replaces my separates plus AVR setup and purges my system of the last the of the tube gear.

The 600 is out of your price range but audiophileliquidator.net has the AVR 500 for under $3k. I don't know anything about them. They include an independent warranty because Arcam won't let anyone sell for less than MSRP.

[golfugh]

Cary Cinema 11A on the way!  Thanks for all of the inputs, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got from the dealer.  After hearing it...well, it's pretty nice.  Quirks, issues....yes, but man does it sound good.

Mark