[Phil A]

One word, jitter.
Squeezebox does not sound good when compared to other similarly priced digital sources, and it can be correlated to high jitter shown in measurements.
Some will claim that jitter plays no role if below 1nS (so with all due respect they are deaf), or that it plays no role because of jitter rejection methods employed in so many moderns DACs (so again, with all due respect they are deaf).
Some will claim that all is needed is a good clock (and they will quote it), disregarding all other sources of jitter, PSU, tracing, EMI, etc. and that as long you are locked there cannot be possibly any problems (so again,… ).

As I noted in my previous post, there are mods that can be done to improve sound - i.e. - Bolder Cables or things like http://cgi.ebay.ie/Squeezebox-Touch-twin-output-Micro-low-jitter-clock-/270652188684

The big drawback is the cost of the mods vs. the cost of what you are buying.  I actually paid more for the power supply (a drop over $200) than what I paid for the Touch ($180) but I can also use that power supply with my HDMI audio de-embedder.  If one is going to put $800 of worth of mods into a $300 device (and also Logitech beyond the warranty is not noted for customer service, especially compared to Bryston) you may end up with something 80% as good (without the ability to play anything above 96kHz) at a little over half the price of a BDP-1.  For me that personally isn't worth it given all the variables.  If I was going to spend that much, I'd just wait until I could get the BDP-1.  The Squeezebox Touch with an upgraded power supply (and you can go a bit cheaper than I did) is a good entry level device into hi-rez music files much in the same manner as there are brands of separates that are good high end audio entry level brands.

[Sasha]

As I noted in my previous post, there are mods that can be done to improve sound - i.e. - Bolder Cables or things like http://cgi.ebay.ie/Squeezebox-Touch-twin-output-Micro-low-jitter-clock-/270652188684

The big drawback is the cost of the mods vs. the cost of what you are buying.  I actually paid more for the power supply (a drop over $200) than what I paid for the Touch ($180) but I can also use that power supply with my HDMI audio de-embedder.  If one is going to put $800 of worth of mods into a $300 device (and also Logitech beyond the warranty is not noted for customer service, especially compared to Bryston) you may end up with something 80% as good (without the ability to play anything above 96kHz) at a little over half the price of a BDP-1.  For me that personally isn't worth it given all the variables.  If I was going to spend that much, I'd just wait until I could get the BDP-1.  The Squeezebox Touch with an upgraded power supply (and you can go a bit cheaper than I did) is a good entry level device into hi-rez music files much in the same manner as there are brands of separates that are good high end audio entry level brands.

Yes, I also took the upgrade path in a hope that the unit would live up to its rave reviews, it turned out those rave reviews were not based on facts and were made in a context of a PC gadget.
I wasted money on this thing, it never reached a performance offered by a comparably priced CD transport, it was simply not worth the money invested.
I agree with your assessment, and I also consider the thing not worth the cost, especially considering the upgrades, either set your expectations correctly and get it knowing it is an entry level device built at low price point and performance, or get well engineered component such as  BDP-1.
My original answer was focused on performance only.
So we do not differ at all in our assessments.
I went a bit further and made comments about Transporter in comparison to BDP-1 from the perspective of respective manufacturers, the niche they live in, their product lineup, and the engineering quality and performance you can expect from their products, and stated that I do not believe Transporter measures up to BDP-1 in terms of quality and performance.
The problem is that there are those who get offended when you do not warship the product they purchased.

[Phil A]

I actually have not heard the Transporter or even seen one in stores.  I never considered streaming items (and thus did not look hard for the Transporter) until I bought the WD Media Player.  I did not use the WD Media Player for almost a year after I bought it and took the time to store music in WMA lossless (which I also used via compression for a Zune player I had).  When I went to use it, although it said WMA compatible, you had to convert the WMA to MP3 and the player would only output 128bps to the BDA-1.  I listened to a song and half and put the thing away and gave it away.  The Touch is a huge upgrade compared to what I had.  When I have lots of nice digital music files, I can always consider an upgrade.

[whanafi]

I went a bit further and made comments about Transporter in comparison to BDP-1 from the perspective of respective manufacturers, the niche they live in, their product lineup, and the engineering quality and performance you can expect from their products, and stated that I do not believe Transporter measures up to BDP-1 in terms of quality and performance.
The problem is that there are those who get offended when you do not warship the product they purchased.

sigh. 

Apparently in addition to making comments about equipment you don't own or use, you also can't stop making unsubstantiated criticisms. 

Personally, I don't "warship" any product I purchase.  Equipment is equipment, a tool I use to get a job done.  What I do get offended by are ignorant assertions made without substantiation or evidence.  Equating quality with price is just snobbery of the worst kind, particularly when it comes to digital audio equipment.

You have made your claims repeatedly, and yet continue to fail to provide any evidence. 

Without introducing anything new, you really should consider the discussion closed.

[konut]

What I find appealing about the BDP-1 is the fact that it is a stand alone playback device. The computer that is built-in is dedicated to only one task. I suspect that the overwhelmingly positive reviews are due to the superlative engineering of this 1 box solution obviating the need for Ethernet cabling or wireless network packeting in delivering files.

 What I have found off putting is that a computer or smart phone, with a network, is required for anything but the most basic navigating utilizing the front panel display. Lately the arrogance of a Mr. Jobs has put me off of any iCrap, so it was with great interest that I read in the BDP-1 Sneak Peak thread that nyc_paramedic, post #489, was working on some "experimental  stuff" with a Kindle ereader. THAT caught my interest! Only $140, small, light, and maintains the simplicity of the "stand alone" solution, even if a dedicated network is needed, but ONLY for the  BDP-1 and not for a "computer" network. James,  put nyc_paramedic on retainer.

[werd]

Not to start a flame war, or get into the whole Apple versus PC mess, but you could look at the new Macbook Airs.

They are anything but bulky, and have a full sized laptop keyboard,full OSX, and SSD hard drive which makes the computer fly. I just got back from the Apple Store and got one for my wife, its pretty sweet.

I think Dell has an alternative too, the "Adamo," I think its called; if you are a PC fan.

Either way these new ultra portable laptops would probably make an excellent music controller since you can also do multi task work and the like while listening to music.

The mac portable laptops make excellent transports. They are a silent running machine that  have great battery life. You can't hear the thing run at all. I would like to see them a bit cheaper and with ssd drives at a more reasonable cost. But they are nothing to scoff at, just too pricey imo

[TomS]

What I find appealing about the BDP-1 is the fact that it is a stand alone playback device. The computer that is built-in is dedicated to only one task. I suspect that the overwhelmingly positive reviews are due to the superlative engineering of this 1 box solution obviating the need for Ethernet cabling or wireless network packeting in delivering files.

 What I have found off putting is that a computer or smart phone, with a network, is required for anything but the most basic navigating utilizing the front panel display. Lately the arrogance of a Mr. Jobs has put me off of any iCrap, so it was with great interest that I read in the BDP-1 Sneak Peak thread that nyc_paramedic, post #489, was working on some "experimental  stuff" with a Kindle ereader. THAT caught my interest! Only $140, small, light, and maintains the simplicity of the "stand alone" solution, even if a dedicated network is needed, but ONLY for the  BDP-1 and not for a "computer" network. James,  put nyc_paramedic on retainer.

A Nokia 770 or 800 is also an alternative and should work well.

[sfraser]

Couple comments I would like to add to this thread. 1st, the transporter is/was part of a music system that consist of a variety of network players, and open source software which streams music across a network to the above mentioned players. The system offers a lot of other services which creates an extremely powerful and flexible music front end. There are several types of network players, all of them have both analog and digital outputs
Sean Adams was the  CEO of Slimdevices prior to the logitech purchase. Sean and his team of engineers designed and created the transporter as a  statement product in 2005/2006. From all reviews I read he suceeded. The transporter ( transport & DAC) were considered a bargain for the price/performance and flexibility they offered. I use past tense, because I believe Logitech has discontinued the product.

Like most people, who have contributed to this thread I have not actually have had the opportunity to listen to the transporter, but I do have the squeeze center software installed on my Linux server and have 6 of the lower price squeezebox's distributed though out my house. My 2 channel and home theatre system both use all Bryston components. (4b's, bp25, SP1,) and PSB and PMC monitors. My 2 channel system DAC is Benchmark DAC 1 and I use the SP1 DAC for music in my multi channel system. Both systems have squeezebox's as transports. I have done some comparisons lately between the Benchmark DAC1 and squeezebox built in DAC. I can't hear the difference, and the DAC1 does employ a jitter buffer system. My 17 year old daughter could not tell the difference either.

I really enjoy the flexibility and sound quality I receive with my squeezebox's. I love the fact that I can synchronize the players if I am having a party, I love the fact that myself, my wife, son and daughter can each simultaneously and instantaneously  access the 1.3 TB of music we have from any system in the house, or I can stream numerous music sources off the Internet.

There was a comment made earlier that "less is more" when it sones to bells and whistles with the transporter.  I don't believe this true anymore than the Bryston players ability to play mp3 files reduces it performance with 24 bit material.

James has done a great job explaining in several threads what the BDP is and what it is not. I am pretty confident it is a fantastic performer, but at the moment I am not prepared to give up all the flexibility I currently enjoy with the squeezebox's. Plus I don't have any 24 bit material .

Does the BDP sound better than the transporter? I don't know, like everyone else on this thread I have not yet had the opportunity to compare the two. I would certainly be interested in reading about a comparison, hopefully using a
common DAC (Bryston DAC perhaps?).

Does anyone have the capability to do this in the near future? The results would be most interesting.

[Phil A]

There's no doubt that choices for streaming are plentiful as well as have different price points and design goals.  I'm posting right now on the Google TV box I picked up last night.  It will be a bit before I get to streaming but I find it a very nice interface.

[ricko01]

Does the BDP sound better than the transporter? I don't know, like everyone else on this thread I have not yet had the opportunity to compare the two. I would certainly be interested in reading about a comparison, hopefully using a
common DAC (Bryston DAC perhaps?).

Does anyone have the capability to do this in the near future? The results would be most interesting.

Yes,, as the OP on this thread, when I get my BDP-1 I will able to compare both via my BDA-1... using  the same cabling.

I will also test  SPDIF BNC verses AES/EBU...

[1oldguy]

Yes,, as the OP on this thread, when I get my BDP-1 I will able to compare both via my BDA-1... using  the same cabling.

I will also test  SPDIF BNC verses AES/EBU...

Will be interesting to hear about your results.

[Welly123]

Couple comments I would like to add to this thread. 1st, the transporter is/was part of a music system that consist of a variety of network players, and open source software which streams music across a network to the above mentioned players. The system offers a lot of other services which creates an extremely powerful and flexible music front end. There are several types of network players, all of them have both analog and digital outputs
Sean Adams was the  CEO of Slimdevices prior to the logitech purchase. Sean and his team of engineers designed and created the transporter as a  statement product in 2005/2006. From all reviews I read he suceeded. The transporter ( transport & DAC) were considered a bargain for the price/performance and flexibility they offered. I use past tense, because I believe Logitech has discontinued the product.

Like most people, who have contributed to this thread I have not actually have had the opportunity to listen to the transporter, but I do have the squeeze center software installed on my Linux server and have 6 of the lower price squeezebox's distributed though out my house. My 2 channel and home theatre system both use all Bryston components. (4b's, bp25, SP1,) and PSB and PMC monitors. My 2 channel system DAC is Benchmark DAC 1 and I use the SP1 DAC for music in my multi channel system. Both systems have squeezebox's as transports. I have done some comparisons lately between the Benchmark DAC1 and squeezebox built in DAC. I can't hear the difference, and the DAC1 does employ a jitter buffer system. My 17 year old daughter could not tell the difference either.

I really enjoy the flexibility and sound quality I receive with my squeezebox's. I love the fact that I can synchronize the players if I am having a party, I love the fact that myself, my wife, son and daughter can each simultaneously and instantaneously  access the 1.3 TB of music we have from any system in the house, or I can stream numerous music sources off the Internet.

There was a comment made earlier that "less is more" when it sones to bells and whistles with the transporter.  I don't believe this true anymore than the Bryston players ability to play mp3 files reduces it performance with 24 bit material.

James has done a great job explaining in several threads what the BDP is and what it is not. I am pretty confident it is a fantastic performer, but at the moment I am not prepared to give up all the flexibility I currently enjoy with the squeezebox's. Plus I don't have any 24 bit material .

Does the BDP sound better than the transporter? I don't know, like everyone else on this thread I have not yet had the opportunity to compare the two. I would certainly be interested in reading about a comparison, hopefully using a
common DAC (Bryston DAC perhaps?).

Does anyone have the capability to do this in the near future? The results would be most interesting.

I had a SqueezeBox Touch for a couple of weeks while I was waiting for my BDP-1. I was not happy with the sound quality through my Anthem D2v processor and returned it under the “no quibble” return policy. At the time I compared it to my ViewSonic VMP74 media player (VMP75 in USA) and the VMP74 was far superior (using its HDMI output, up to 24/192), versus the SBT using its electrical S/PDIF output… it did not warrant a detailed comparison, it was pretty obvious… but of course subjective.

It is clear to my ears that the BDP-1 is better than the VMP74 (£100 versus £2,300, I would bloody hope so to…), while comparing the same files. In my mind, it is therefore a reasonably safe bet that the BDP-1 would also have trounced the SBT (similar pricing caveat…).

Not exactly scientific, so just my two pennies worth.

Regards

Russell

Edit: I should also say that all three devices (VMP74, SBT and BDP-1) all used a directly connected 1TB LaCie USB HDD, with the same files for comparison, allbeit at different times as stated above.

[Sasha]

I had a SqueezeBox Touch for a couple of weeks while I was waiting for my BDP-1. I was not happy with the sound quality through my Anthem D2v processor and returned it under the “no quibble” return policy. At the time I compared it to my ViewSonic VMP74 media player (VMP75 in USA) and the VMP74 was far superior (using its HDMI output, up to 24/192), versus the SBT using its electrical S/PDIF output… it did not warrant a detailed comparison, it was pretty obvious… but of course subjective.

It is clear to my ears that the BDP-1 is better than the VMP74 (£100 versus £2,300, I would bloody hope so to…), while comparing the same files. In my mind, it is therefore a reasonably safe bet that the BDP-1 would also have trounced the SBT (similar pricing caveat…).

Not exactly scientific, so just my two pennies worth.

Regards

Russell

Edit: I should also say that all three devices (VMP74, SBT and BDP-1) all used a directly connected 1TB LaCie USB HDD, with the same files for comparison, allbeit at different times as stated above.

F
Finally someone with good hearing   

[tomjtx]

Yes, I also took the upgrade path in a hope that the unit would live up to its rave reviews, it turned out those rave reviews were not based on facts and were made in a context of a PC gadget.
I wasted money on this thing, it never reached a performance offered by a comparably priced CD transport, it was simply not worth the money invested.
I agree with your assessment, and I also consider the thing not worth the cost, especially considering the upgrades, either set your expectations correctly and get it knowing it is an entry level device built at low price point and performance, or get well engineered component such as  BDP-1.
My original answer was focused on performance only.
So we do not differ at all in our assessments.
I went a bit further and made comments about Transporter in comparison to BDP-1 from the perspective of respective manufacturers, the niche they live in, their product lineup, and the engineering quality and performance you can expect from their products, and stated that I do not believe Transporter measures up to BDP-1 in terms of quality and performance.
The problem is that there are those who get offended when you do not warship the product they purchased.

Wrong, the problem is you are making assumptions about the SQ of something you haven't heard (Transporter). Your assertions are beyond absurd and only serve to further undermine your credibility.

Do a properly administered DBT between the Bryston and the Transporter before offering what is , at this point, your worthless opinion.

[Sasha]

Wrong, the problem is you are making assumptions about the SQ of something you haven't heard (Transporter). Your assertions are beyond absurd and only serve to further undermine your credibility.

Do a properly administered DBT between the Bryston and the Transporter before offering what is , at this point, your worthless opinion.

How is that worthless piece of junk of yours working? Still fascinated with fluorescent glow in the dark?

[sfraser]

How is that worthless piece of junk of yours working? Still fascinated with fluorescent glow in the dark?

Credability? Going.....going......gone!

[KeithA]

Credability? Going.....going......gone!

Jitterbug's credibility was gone long before that post 

Keith

[Sasha]

Right, jitter is meaningless. What is next? There is no difference between VBR MP3 and lossless codec?
There are many who cannot hear the difference, and there are many of so called “blind tests” out there that “prove” there is no difference, which is nothing more than proof they cannot hear the measurable difference others can.
You can join those convinced in such nonsense and enforce your ignorance.

[ricko01]

Wrong, the problem is you are making assumptions about the SQ of something you haven't heard (Transporter). Your assertions are beyond absurd and only serve to further undermine your credibility.

Do a properly administered DBT between the Bryston and the Transporter before offering what is , at this point, your worthless opinion.

Correct.

Making a case for or against the Transporter based on what you hear from some other Slimdevices/Logitech product (modded or not) is like making statements about the performance of a BMW M5 after owning/driving a BMW 318i.

Sure they are both BMW's but they share no underlying engineering components.

[David C]

I own a SQbox and a Transporter both non modded. There is a significant improvement in the Transporter with red book cds and it plays higher res stuff to boot. I recently purchased the EE minimax DAC and to my ears it is even better than the Transporter. As others have stated the SQ gear is great for flexibility and until I find something different I will keep it. I am a big Bryston fan and the gear is first rate and have not heard the BDP-1 but would imagine with the quality of build and engineering it is very good.

My CD player is a Kenergetics which was high end in the mid 80s and the FLAC files put it to shame