Do I need a...

neyloj2 · « **on:** 1 Dec 2010, 04:22 pm »

Greetings, I have enjoyed my VPI Scoutmaster for about 6 months now. I use the record clamp and it puts a good amount of pressure on the album. The acrylic platter has no mat. Do I need one to protect records. My sound is incredible and I don't want to alter that, just worried about album pressed against acrylic platter.

BobM · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Dec 2010, 04:38 pm »

If the album itself is clean, without obvious dust, grime, dirt, particles, etc ...
and the platter is clean, without residu from dirty albums ...
then the VPI clamp will firmly "bond" the vinyl to the platter as intended, making a single rotating mass (or as close as you can come without glue).

Putting a mat between them will break that bond and likely give you a muddy and diffuse, non-focused sound. But you can surely try it and see how it sounds to your ears.

Enjoy,
Bob

rcag_ils · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Dec 2010, 06:11 pm »

No mat, when use clamp, don't put too much pressure on the record.

Minn Mark · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Dec 2010, 06:48 pm »

I use a SOTA with their clamp...no mat. no problem.

Mark

orthobiz · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Dec 2010, 10:29 pm »

Also matless.

Paul

neyloj2 · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 12:28 am »

Cool, whats a SOTA?

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 02:29 am »

+1, the VPI platters are designed to go mat-less. And the clamp will have a hard time contacting the threads if you do use a mat (I tried for S&G). You won't have any damage to the vinyl unless for some crazy reason you have a large contaminant on the platter.

SOTA is a turntable manufacturer, once a significant rival to Harry at VPI, no longer a major player.

pumpkinman · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 02:37 am »

VPI HW 19 MK III no mat here..........Bill

writeface · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 02:54 am »

Wow. I thought every tt needed mat. What is the purpose of tt mat?
My Nottingham has a felt mat and I was told to
get Boston audio mat-1 as an improvement. To improve
what I wonder!

Sorry, newbie here.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 04:32 am »

I think originally most rubber mats were designed to protect the record and provide some sort of damping for metal platter.

For platters made out of composite material, the theory is composite like acrylic, polymer or whatever's mechanical property or impedance is so close to vinyl, impedance matching allows it to provide max. energy transfer for unwanted mechanical energy dissipation.

I replaced my felt mat with rubber mat on my Pro-ject 6.1, it sounded worse, so don't mess with it, go with what the manufacturers recommend.

raindance · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 12:20 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 2 Dec 2010, 02:29 am

+1, the VPI platters are designed to go mat-less. And the clamp will have a hard time contacting the threads if you do use a mat (I tried for S&G). You won't have any damage to the vinyl unless for some crazy reason you have a large contaminant on the platter.

SOTA is a turntable manufacturer, once a significant rival to Harry at VPI, no longer a major player.

I guess SOTA is not getting much exposure from advertising on House!

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 03:28 pm »

Most House viewers would have a hard time identifying it as a turntable, they've never seen anything but a SL1200 at a rave, and that only from the dance floor.

Wayner · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:35 pm »

I do not like the idea of not using a mat. Here is why. The platter is subject to bearing and/or belt noise, along with any kind of suspension vibrations, and the mat can be used effectively to kill some, if not all of this unwanted component. The trick is to find a mat or mat material if you are a DIYer that will not suck out bass energy from the record while tracking. Almost all if not all DD tables of the past came with really hard durometer platter mats that just passed to much ambient and machine born energy through and proper mat fixes this scenario. Empire TTs have a unique method of LP support with their relatively hard mat, and those mats support the record by the outer edge only. This technique as helps keep warped LPs flatter without the use of clamps. I guess a guy has to experiment.

Wayner

Mitsuman · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 2 Dec 2010, 03:28 pm

Most House viewers would have a hard time identifying it as a turntable, they've never seen anything but a SL1200 at a rave, and that only from the dance floor.

Hey, I resent that. House is the only network show that I will actually sit down and watch.

Sonny · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 06:52 pm »

No mat for me either, I have the VPI Aluminum platter...

bside123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 08:21 pm »

I am currently using 2 turntables. I've spent considerable time isolating vibrations away from the platter and plinth. On neither table do I use a mat. Tone, presence and definition has improved across the board on both tables with a little time, attention and tweaks.

VPI HW-19 MKIV with Super Platter - No Mat
Nottingham Horizon SE w/SAMA - No Mat (took off the foam mat)

kgturner · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 09:12 pm »

I'm also mat-less on my VPI Scoutmaster with Super Platter. Never used a mat on the standard acrylic platter either.

Kevin T

rcag_ils · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 06:33 am »

Hopefully, turntable designers aren't deaf. I am sure they test listen whatever they build. When a turntable doesn't come with a mat, that means NO MAT, what's not clear?

My CJ Walker 55 designer said "NO MAT" means no mat or trick needed.

If your turntable's bearing and the suspension together make the kind of noise that needs a mat to cure, throw it in the trash.

BaMorin · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 3 Dec 2010, 06:33 am

Hopefully, turntable designers aren't deaf. I am sure they test listen whatever they build. When a turntable doesn't come with a mat, that means NO MAT, what's not clear?

My CJ Walker 55 designer said "NO MAT" means no mat or trick needed.

If your turntable's bearing and the suspension together make the kind of noise that needs a mat to cure, throw it in the trash.

I agree with the last statement, if the mat was designed to cure those issues.
If the mat is designed to stop a reflective wave from the platter, it is doing its job. Resonance, and reflection are not the same thing.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2010, 03:46 pm »

Took me awhile to buy into the 'no mat' idea on the VPI Classic....but that's how I run it now and it sounds great.

With direct and rim/idler drives, a mat would seem absolutely necessary...but belt drives, due to the semi-attached drive system that is inherently 'less' direct....no mat seems to work fine if the main platter is of low friction and platter is good interface with vinyl (ie., plastic) construction of records themselves.

Don't go matless with a steel platter, glass, mdf, or thin (underdamped) aluminum or zymak platter....but, nice thick aluminum, ceramic and acrylic ones seem ample buffer from extraneous energy to go matless.