[ted_b]

Art,
I had Scot Markwell from Furutech custom make me a set of Reference III-level balanced cables (FA-220 cable, FP-601/602 ends), and they are excellent.  At 7M I am still getting every nuance, plenty of air and hf info, let alone the dynamics these cables send.  Scot is 800 457 2577 x 22.  Please tell him I sent you.     The room is almost done.  The diffusor cloud and side wall sail/diffusor treatments are being stained and prepped right now.   

[dminches]

Ted, my guess is that pair of cables were over $5k.  Correct?

[arthurs]

Awesome on the room Ted, I can't wait to see pics and hear your thoughts on the sonics!  Congrats!

[dminches]

The pics are available in the gallery here.  I can tell you that the room looks amazing.

[arthurs]

The remodel is new even to the pics in his gallery I think.  That's my point, I'm anxious to see where he goes from amazing!    

[Philistine]

Art, I'd make darn sure the cables are first and foremost very low capacitance (i.e. 15 pf/ft) and then having them balanced will insure low or no noise.

Blue Jeans low capacitance IC's are 12.2 pF/ft so would qualify under this criteria alone.  I have a pair of these IC's that are great value for money but can be significantly improved upon in terms of air and detail.  I settled on Grover Huffman's IC's which I found comparable with JPS SC3's in terms of quality, but significantly less expensive.....

[avahifi]

Gee I really really wish somebody else here would do what I have done many times, namely measure the cable capacitance, and then load the output of the preamp or power amp with an equivalent value capacitor and watch what happens to the linearity of the preamp or amplifier as the capacitive load increases.

I absolutely guarantee you won't love your pet cables when the facts tell you they are doing bad things to your electronics.

Of course, if you never make the objective tests, you can continue to love them as always.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[ted_b]

Ted, my guess is that pair of cables were over $5k.  Correct?

Nope.  About a fifth of that.   

The front soundstage is pretty much done and the newest pic is the last post on the Aether thread here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86678.msg855000;topicseen#new

Thanks for all the kudos, but let's keep this thread on point.   

Net/net, I chose 7M of 42pf/meter (or about 13.5 per foot) balanced cables, with very high-quality connectors, and I'm not hearing a single issue compared to same cables at 1M. 

[rollo]

Gee I really really wish somebody else here would do what I have done many times, namely measure the cable capacitance, and then load the output of the preamp or power amp with an equivalent value capacitor and watch what happens to the linearity of the preamp or amplifier as the capacitive load increases.

I absolutely guarantee you won't love your pet cables when the facts tell you they are doing bad things to your electronics.

Of course, if you never make the objective tests, you can continue to love them as always.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

  Is it possible for you to recco a particular cable with the LCR that suits your gear. Meaning when one purchases your gear and knows the load of their speakers can you determine the desired LCR one should look for. It would make things alot easier to choose the correct cable for that use.


charles

[zybar]

I had an interesting discussion with Ralph at Atma-Sphere about preamps and long ic's.  He basically said what Frank and Dan have said - a well designed preamp should have no problem driving long ic's between the amp and preamp.  He states that his preamps can easily handle ic lengths in excess of 200 feet without any sonic degradation.

Just another data point to consider.

George

[dminches]

Wow.  I could go for that.  I thought the Furutech Reference at that length would be mucho dinero (not that $1k isn't). It is all relative.

[ted_b]

Wow.  I could go for that.  I thought the Furutech Reference at that length would be mucho dinero (not that $1k isn't). It is all relative.

it's not exactly stock Ref 3.  it's more like somewhere between Evolution II (great stuff btw) and Ref III, with Ref III connectors.  Either way, it's well spent IMO.  It's not ASI Liveline, but 7M of that will be the sum of a small home.

[TomS]

I had an interesting discussion with Ralph at Atma-Sphere about preamps and long ic's.  He basically said what Frank and Dan have said - a well designed preamp should have no problem driving long ic's between the amp and preamp.  He states that his preamps can easily handle ic lengths in excess of 200 feet without any sonic degradation.

Just another data point to consider.

George

Balanced with 600 ohm terminations, as in broadcast standard.  I'm using 25' Mogami balanced IC's from my Atma-Sphere preamp with no problems ...

[dmatt]

For the DIYer,

Belden 1800F is a nice low-priced wire for balanced cable construction (about $1.20 per foot).  24 AWG stranded copper twisted pair, tinned copper braid shield.

110 ohm impedance; .18 uH/ft inductance; conductor to conductor capacitance of 12 pF/ft.

Add a pair Neutrik gold- or silver-plated XLRs and you have a basic long balanced interconnect.  BJ Cables uses it.

Belden 89207 is another choice ($4.25 per foot).

Furutech FA-220, a twisted pair with shield used in I believe the Evo II (or similar in construction anyway), is available in bulk as well (about $20 per foot -- PCOCC copper).

My fave is Neotech NEI-3001, normally at $20 per foot, Soniccraft has it at 20% off.  I'd love to see the capacitance specs on it.

Good times.

David

[audioengr]

Thanks Ted, any idea who manufactures cables with capacitance that low?

Hope you're well!   

How about 3.8pF/foot?

And BTW, balanced is not a pancea, unless you have a strong DC-coupled driver and terminate the end of the cable with 600 ohms or less.  Otherwise the capacitance still matters.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

[audioengr]

I had an interesting discussion with Ralph at Atma-Sphere about preamps and long ic's.  He basically said what Frank and Dan have said - a well designed preamp should have no problem driving long ic's between the amp and preamp.  He states that his preamps can easily handle ic lengths in excess of 200 feet without any sonic degradation.

Just another data point to consider.

George

No, what Ralph says is that balanced cables driven from DC coupled drivers with terminations at the ends are not a problem for long cables.  The DC-coupled drivers must be strong ones, strong enough to drive high-impedance headphones.  There are a few requirements there.

I have had this conversation with Ralph.  Our rooms are near each other at RMAF and I have had rooms close to his for many years at CES.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

[dminches]

How about 3.8pF/foot?

I think someone was asking who manufactures cables with low impedance and capacitance.

[audioengr]

I think someone was asking who manufactures cables with low impedance and capacitance.

See my moniker.