Sony ES STR-DA2000ES

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 9 Mar 2004, 03:14 am »

Does anyone know if the S-Master Digital Chip in the current itineration of Sony receivers, such as the Sony ES STR-DA2000ES, accept a digital signal? I recall reading that the newest S-Master Pro does this, but I'm not sure if those are out yet.

It seems like I've read a lot of negative comments about the digital Sony's with regard to hum/noise- can anyone here confirm this?

rbrb · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 05:46 am »

I think the humm/hiss was blown way out of porportion.All of the one's that I have heard had no more hiss/hum than most analog receivers.

I remember a few years back when the STRV444ES was a current model some joker posted a comment on a forum stating that his rear speakers had a hiss when he turned the volume way up with out anything playing,if he put his ears right up to the speakers.

Suddenly everywhere everyone had a hiss problem that was not there until it was pointed out to them.

My system constantly has a humm if I put my ear next to the speaker.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Does it accept a digital signal"

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:59 am »

Some digital amp chips (most notably the Tripath) have an A/D converter built into them. With current Tripath amps, a digital signal is converted to analog and then back to digital by the amp module. Obviously adding another conversion cycle won't do anything to help the sound. That's also why, in a sense, the Tripath isn't a "true" digital amp, for what that's worth.

That's one reason why the Panasonic receiver is said to sound so remarkable- the TI chip will accept a digital signal. So in theory at least, your CD player will read a disc, output a digital signal to your receiver which will perform all signal processing in the digital domain (bass, treble, PLII, etc) and pass this along to the amp. The signal never will be converted to analog again.

The next generation of Tripath amps will accept a digital signal. As a few guys I've come to respect have stated a preference for the sound of the T/P vs some of the other chips (TI, ICEPower, etc), this will be a Big Deal, IMOHO.

I scanned the reviews on AR, and naturally I take that site with a big grain of salt; however, many many people claimed to have bad hum problems with a couple of the Sony's. It could be a smear campaign, but usually the simplest answer is the best. Noise absolutely drives me nuts, and a humming sound like that described on AR would be a deal-breaker.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 08:01 am »

BTW, my system is pretty close to dead silent, even with my ear close to the speaker. Sure, there's a little hiss, but nothing I can hear from more than a couple feet back. I had a ground loop prob for awhile, but I fixed that with a Ground Buster that I bought from Byteme.

daveric · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 11:30 am »

Fwiw the XR45 is the first amp i have ever heard that has NO hiss none at all. Its part of what makes the Equibit amps so special
I checked this by playing a zero data track i have on cd.

Dmason · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 02:05 pm »

The S Master Pro's do have a digital direct function.

My impression was that the Sonys which had noise problems had no more noise than any other masssssss-fi product, and that the issue was being examined by people with their ears to their speakers with the volume of the amp at zero attenuation. --Not exactly a real world scenario. Apparently, one model in particular, the 3000, was notorious, and that this was fixed with subsequent shipments.

The real issues with noise and digital amps have everything to do with proper power conditioning, and isolation. Digital amps are inherently sensitive to RFI in the line, and produce lots of it, themselves. Any digital amp I have tried, The SonyAVD-S500, Panasonic SA45, Carver ZR, the PowerWave, all exhibited a very noticeable increase in resolution, and almost total loss of RF type noise when 1) used with an upgrade Power Cord and plugged into their own outlet within a high quality power conditioner. The Panasonic seems particularly sensitive to AC. ONEAC's work perfectly. Key is getting rid of the noise, and out comes the inner detail and delicate nature of digital amps. 2) isolation; digital amps can produce their own jitter. Good isolation efforts yield further obvious results. I am using Final Labs bearings, and to my amazement, the quality of the sound jacked up yet again, another good increment.

Dmason · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 02:06 pm »

The S Master Pro's do have a digital direct function.

My impression was that the Sonys which had noise problems had no more noise than any other masssssss-fi product, and that the issue was being examined by people with their ears to their speakers with the volume of the amp at zero attenuation. --Not exactly a real world scenario. Apparently, one model in particular, the 3000, was notorious, and that this was fixed with subsequent shipments.

The real issues with noise and digital amps have everything to do with proper power conditioning, and isolation. Digital amps are inherently sensitive to RFI in the line, and produce lots of it, themselves. Any digital amp I have tried, The SonyAVD-S500, Panasonic SA45, Carver ZR, the PowerWave, all exhibited a very noticeable increase in resolution, and almost total loss of RF type noise when 1) used with an upgrade Power Cord and plugged into their own outlet within a high quality power conditioner. The Panasonic seems particularly sensitive to AC. ONEAC's work perfectly. Key is getting rid of the noise, and out comes the inner detail and delicate nature of digital amps. 2) isolation; digital amps can produce their own jitter. Good isolation efforts yield further obvious results. I am using Final Labs bearings, and to my amazement, the quality of the sound jacked up yet again, another good increment.

BrunoB · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 02:55 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Does anyone know if the S-Master Digital Chip in the current itineration of Sony receivers, such as the Sony ES STR-DA2000ES, accept a digital signal? I recall reading that the newest S-Master Pro does this, but I'm not sure if those are out yet.

The Sony STR-DA9000ES goes one step further and accepts digital signal from Sony's SACD player in DSD format. Sad that this combo is so expensive.

rbrb · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 05:04 pm »

Go to this web site and input the model (STRDA2000ES) you are interested in. The technical white paper may answer all of your questions.

http://www.iq.sony.com/srvs/sosdocs/default.asp

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:24 pm »

Have you tried ferrite clamps on the power cords, DMason? And how well do the digital units respond to power treatment?

Dmason · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:57 pm »

Yup. Ferrite clip on RF chokes for the PC, from Rat Shack. Red and green ones are best. A must. I also sprinkled ferrite beads on AC inlet wiring and input leads on my ZR1000 to great effect. More's the better.

The PowerWave is equally susceptible. Mine is a whole 'nother animal with a hospital grade PSU, chokes, sitting on a big Vibrapod. No noise heard through some 96db Hi E 12" co-axials, with which the PW can crank out some astoundingly good vibes.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:11 pm »

Yeah, I'm gonna have to do that, too. My PWave is succeptible to RFI. What do you recommend, after the ferrite chokes?

Dmason · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:26 pm »

I recommend the best aftermarket PSU you can get. Mine is a Hoeschler, German medical equipment grade, great for audio, and about 4X the price of the PW. Ferrite beads from PartsExpress by the bagful.

If you are still using your computer, unless it is a unit optimized for music, like the Carillon, regular old computers are noise weapons and should not be taken too seriously for audiophool apps, unless you start into noiseless bushings for everything, and stream from FireWire HD, etc., like the big boys.

I am beginning to take a serious look into crossover-less single driver forms with the Tripath sonic signature. It looks like a short cut to serious high end sound, based on what I am hearing now,and reading on Omega. Talk about speaker control? Mate a digital amp with a Hi E driver and see what happens...made for each other.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:43 pm »

Due to the scarcity of new '45s, Wayne @ Boulder is looking into mods for the Panny '25. He says it won't be as good no matter what he mods as the '45, but still perhaps worthwhile and a bit cheaper. I don't wanna go to whole hog on my PWave as I'm waiting for something with a bit more muscle.

I do have mine hooked up to the PC, and no, mine isn't tricked out for music by any means. It still sounds nice, much better sound than I've gotten from a computer before. I'll try the ferrite clamps & maybe a bit better PS (BTW, is that a pretty standard socket/connection to the PWave & it's power supply? Shows how often I deal with outboard PS's!).

Mathew_M · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:55 pm »

Has anyone tried operating the powerwave via batteries?

Comparing the tripath to the TI chip I have to say I find the tripath smoother and more musical. Of course this is somewhat apples and oranges. My TI based Panny XR25 is hooked up to my VMPS 626R's and the tripath based Powerwave is hooked up to my Apple Pro Speakers.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:59 pm »

At the risk of drifting off my initial topic (although it's my thread, so I don't mind!

), how does the '25 work driving your 626Rs? That's almost the same setup as I'm considering myself. Has your Panny been modded at all or is it stock? And does the '25 have the "party mode" that '45 users are using to biamp their RM40s?

Thanks.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 03:39 am »

The 25 is stock. I'd be interested in a mod if someone were offering it (hint, hint). As it is its a nice setup. Very clean sounding and detailed. Digital amps retrieve every detail I believe, nothing is lost. With that said at louder volumes it becomes a bit hard to listen to with the top end on the forward and shrill side. This might be correctable with the bybees. The 25 as far as I know has the party mode but I haven't tried it since my 626's are not bi-amped.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 03:41 am »

Wayne has said he's looking into to it. I'm curious what type of mods he'll come up with for it. I really should just buy one, as cheap as they are. I dicked around until all the '45s were pretty much gone.