Not another PC music server?

Martyn · « **on:** 12 Nov 2010, 07:30 am »

I haven’t seen a thread on anything quite like this, so I’m going to pitch it to you guys for some advice.

I presently stream audio files from my primary general-purpose PC to a Squeezebox (SB) across my Ethernet home network. This would be fine if the PC were quiet and low power, but it’s neither of those things. I’ve been pondering this problem for a year or more and have come to the conclusion that I need to move the audio files to a separate PC (let’s call it an “audio PC”).

Here’s what I want to do:

•   Rip audio files from CD to flac using my primary PC (as I do at present), but store the files on the audio PC instead. The audio PC will be always-on (and thus low power), silent (or nearly so), and headless. I think it’s feasible to do everything from the primary PC as long as the SB is pointed to the audio PC. The audio PC will not be required to do anything other than stream audio files to my SB across my Ethernet network.

•   Be independent of Microsoft and immune to hardware “up-grades”. I’ll spare you the complete rant; suffice to say that I’m tired of being bullied into replacing my computers, operating systems, and software every few years because of creeping hardware and software incompatibilities.

•   Maximise the longevity of the audio PC by running it cool, minimising its moving parts, and minimising its obsolescence. If all it ever has to do is stream audio files, I think this should be feasible.

I presently have 82 GB of audio ripped to flac. I have yet to rip my classical stuff, but it’s relatively small – I’d guess 20 GB. I also intend to rip our vinyl LPs (one day). So it seems that I could get it all on a 128GB solid state drive (SSD), at least in the short-term. These are still quite expensive, but also quite compelling. Prices are coming down while sizes are going up, so it might not be too long before a 256 GB SSD is economically viable. I’ll back up to an external hard drive (USB or NAS).

I’d like to use some form of Linux as an operating system. I have no experience of this, but I do have a friend who is willing to help out. I’ve dabbled with Fortran, machine code, Basic, and so on in past lives – I’ve forgotten nearly all of it, but at least Linux might not be entirely foreign.

So here’s what I need (I think):

•   A motherboard with CPU, USB, and ethernet. Video, keyboard, and mouse ports for installation and configuration would probably be a good idea.
•   An SSD for the operating system and file storage.
•   A power supply (internal or external).
•   A case.
•   An appropriate form of Linux.
•   No fancy audio card, no fancy video card, no fans, no CD drive, no internal hard drive.

I’m tempted to go straight for an HTPC so that I can stream video as well, but the complexity escalates dramatically in terms of power, heat, noise, and cost, so I think I’ll keep those plans for later.

So here are my questions: is this feasible? Has anyone built something like this recently that I can plagiarise? Can you help me out with recommendations for components and guidance with construction?

Thanks for you help, and sorry about the length of this post,

Martyn

firedog · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 10:02 am »

Seems like the obvious solution for you would be either a vortexbox OS (linux pre-set up as music server and SB server) on either an Atom powered PC or on an actual Vortexbox appliance. Vortexbox appliance is small and quiet; Atom powered PC can be small and even fanless, with low power consumption (20-25W) and can run on external laptop type PS (no fan). I have a dual core Atom doing exactly that right now. Running Vortexbox OS you won't need to code anything for Linux unless you want to do something exotic.

My personal comment: the SSD is a good idea, but I would get a small one (40GB) just for the OS and SB Server, and a conventional low power quiet "green" HD for music file storage only. My experience is that the very best performance with a music server comes this way. One disk for OS/programs another for music fies. When SSD's with larger capacities go down in price you can replace the second drive with an SSD.

Look for Vortexbox.org site (also click on vortexbox appliance link to see hardware) or try a site like tranquilpc.co.uk (British, but you can get ideas of configurations there. They have lots of models, so look around, but they have some configurations just like what you are describing.) You can also use any standard netbook laptop or Atom based nettop. Should be able to build something new for very little money if you are running linux, as you don't need more than 1 GB or RAM for a Linux music server.

PM me if you want to discuss details.

dwk · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 02:57 pm »

What you describe is very close to what I have setup using Vortexbox installed on a single-core Atom board. I have a 32GB SSD as the main OS drive, although music storage is actually on a NAS device at the moment but I'm planning to move it local to the Vortexbox server one of these days when I get some time. It works extremely well - ripping is done on one of our 2 'main' pc's, so we virtually never have to access the server itself. It just sits there in a cabinet consuming maybe 20-22w and 'just works'

The only caveat I would throw out is that I haven't tested this setup with Win 7 and whether there is any hitch sharing files over samba to a Win7 client. The squeezebox won't care of course, but it'll potentially impact the ripping process.

The atom board I'm using is this one http://www.logicsupply.com/products/d945gsejt - you can get the complete setup for about $200 in parts plus the cost of the OS drive if you're willing to assemble yourself.

Martyn · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 04:35 pm »

Thanks, guys. This is very encouraging.

I'm aware of the Vortexbox, but didn't realise that just the OS is available - the box itself is more than I need. An Atom-based board or bare-bones box seems likely - maybe a Zotec or MSI, but that Johnstown board looks OK too.

I've just arrived at work this morning (I'm on Pacific Standard Time), so I'll have to abandon this until I get home this evening. I'll do some research this weekend and let you know what I decide. I'm sure I'll have more questions! Thanks again for your prompt responses,

M

Doublej · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 04:43 pm »

What about one of these from Norh?

http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjrmx/index.html

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: Doublej on 12 Nov 2010, 04:43 pm

What about one of these from Norh?

http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjrmx/index.html

that looks very intriguing...not being a techie could I use that to run USB out to an Audio-GD Digital interface usb/spdif converter and then to my Havana DAC? It seems like it might be better than the Asus netbook with W7 that I'm currently using (with Foobar/Wasapi).
although I can't figure out from the specs if I could use an iTouch as a remote....

catastrofe · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 06:19 pm »

I also think a Vortexbox would be the perfect solution. I was able to demo one in my system, and it seems to meet all the requirements you posted.

Seems like the simplest approach to me, all other things (like budget) being equal.

Tubeburner · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 07:34 pm »

Check out the 2010 Newsletter on http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/

The newsletter has a music server they built and showed at RMAF. FYI.

whanafi · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Nov 2010, 01:55 am »

Have to vote for Vortexbox on a small from factor PC as well.

Have been running this setup for more than a year now, supporting 5 different SB devices (Transporter, Boom, Duet, Touch, Classic) without any problems or drama. Using iPeng on iPad and iPod Touch as remotes.

have a description of the setup here: http://www.waleedhanafi.com/2009/11/building-perfect-music-server.html

Martyn · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 08:17 am »

Having spent far too much time researching this subject over the weekend, I've come to the conclusion that the Vortexbox is indeed a very convenenient solution. The visual appearance is not particularly elegant, but the customised Linux OS is very appealing.

An attractive Atom-based bare-bones alternative is http://www.mini-box.com/Mini-Box-M350-Barebone-System, which has a smaller form-factor and the option of a Vesa mount. It lacks an optical disc drive, but then it's lower price would allow for an external ODD (and change).

I'm leaning towards the Vortexbox, mainly because it should be easier, and thus quicker, to get running. Any final comments before I jump one way or the other?

Mightyburner · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 09:44 pm »

Another vote for the Vortexbox. I purchased the VB appliance (pre-made version) and yes it's not pretty but it's not ugly either. It works and for the price do you really care. A little bit of a learning curve, especially for correcting the tags and the artwork. At least for me it's a challenge but it's the simplest and most cost effective server I've encountered.

I wish I bought a larger HD because I'm filling up the 1TB quickly.

Martyn · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 07:18 am »

Up-date...

Well, first I came to the conclusion that building a more competent HTPC from the outset makes more sense than starting with an audio streamer and then adding another device for video later. Then, when I was in the middle of specing an HTPC, the HDD in my primary PC died. This pushed me towards replacing my primary PC in a hurry with something that could double as an adequate (for my needs) HTPC as well.

I chose the Asus M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 motherboard, because it seems like a very capable board that includes the AMD 890GX/SB850 chip-set with on-board Radeon graphics. The board has HDMI plus USB3, eSata, and enough other outputs to keep it relevant for a good few years. I added an AMD Athlon II x4 645 chip and put it in an Antec Sonata III case. It runs cool and quiet, but has lots of power for my needs.

The time pressure precluded any adventures with Linux and I ended up with Windows 7. Needless to say, I've spend most of my spare time over the last week installing my XP software, trying to find missing files (lots of them), and trying to deal with a multitude of wireless and networking problems. I'll eventually rebuild my old machine and use it as a Linux box to figure out how to migrate to open-source software in time for when my wife's machine dies!

So there we are...a rather different outcome than I anticipated, but OK so far!

skunark · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 09:02 am »

seems like a mac mini with your favorite OS is the king here. silent, hdmi, optical, usb, firewire.... so no esata or usb3, but seriously it's enough, no guess work and it's only the size of a few blu-ray cases... fuel to the fire i'm sure.

satfrat · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 10:59 am »

Quote from: skunark on 9 Dec 2010, 09:02 am

seems like a mac mini with your favorite OS is the king here. silent, hdmi, optical, usb, firewire.... so no esata or usb3, but seriously it's enough, no guess work and it's only the size of a few blu-ray cases... fuel to the fire i'm sure.

Those with PC's and don't have a vested interest in Mac's might feel differently.

Cheers,
Robin

DanH · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 03:16 pm »

I am using a HP media server lx which can be had for $260. I have heard they are discontinuing all their media servers so you might find it cheaper. It is headless and runs windows home server os. I have never been able to hear a sound out of it unless I put my ear down next to it. It uses a laptop power supply so it can not be drawing much power. It has a 640 gig internal drive, 1 gig memory and a 1.6 gig hz atom processor. It seems to run squeeze box server just fine.

Martyn · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Dec 2010, 04:25 am »

I came to the conclusion that the Atom is fine for audio streaming, but lacks the guts for anything more. Its form-factor is certainly very appealing, but it dropped off my list quite quickly once I broadened the scope to include video.

Apples are certainly more attractive in terms of usability, but Steve Jobs is no better than Bill Gates when it comes to trying to lock you into an eternal up-grade path. PCs give you affordable flexibility - if you can make them work - while Apple gives you cool stuff that works - but you have to take what Jobs give you. I can see myself heading that way once I've retired and no longer have competent colleagues to help me, unless Google provides an acceptable compromise. But I digress...

firedog · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Dec 2010, 11:11 am »

Hi-

Quote from: Martyn on 10 Dec 2010, 04:25 am

I came to the conclusion that the Atom is fine for audio streaming, but lacks the guts for anything more. Its form-factor is certainly very appealing, but it dropped off my list quite quickly once I broadened the scope to include video.

Based on my experience with Atom machines, one single core and one dual, you're right.

They aren't very good with video, or any other intensive task. In fact there are some programs that you can't run on them at all, b/c they don't have the juice.

But if you really want to just stream media, they are great.

al2002 · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Jan 2011, 05:35 am »

Another satisfied Vortexbox user here.

Build yourself a fan less Intel Atom PC in a mini itx case, install VB from the iso and presto - you are done. You could do it for under $ 150, not including the hard drive.

Quote from: Martyn on 12 Nov 2010, 04:35 pm

Thanks, guys. This is very encouraging.

I'm aware of the Vortexbox, but didn't realise that just the OS is available - the box itself is more than I need. An Atom-based board or bare-bones box seems likely - maybe a Zotec or MSI, but that Johnstown board looks OK too.

I've just arrived at work this morning (I'm on Pacific Standard Time), so I'll have to abandon this until I get home this evening. I'll do some research this weekend and let you know what I decide. I'm sure I'll have more questions! Thanks again for your prompt responses,

M

shadowlight · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jan 2011, 02:19 pm »

You can start out with Asus Windows Home Server @ Newegg Listed for 160. Blow away the WHS setup and install Vortex

al2002 · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Jan 2011, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: shadowlight on 18 Jan 2011, 02:19 pm

You can start out with Asus Windows Home Server @ Newegg Listed for 160. Blow away the WHS setup and install Vortex

Thanks for the link. Nice price when you consider that an OS and a small HD are included. If I didn't already have a spare mini-itx system I would go for it.

Regarding VB, my mini-itx build cost about $ 275 for parts. I also sent the developer a small donation. Taking setup time and effort into account, the VB appliance is quite fairly priced at under $ 400, especially when you see what some of the high end servers sell for.