[BaMorin]

Marc, I was wondering when you'd arrive on the scene.

Grado sucks you know. 

Not trying to hi-jack this thread........but Mitsu needed a bit of grado bashing.......for the others, I'm familiar with the longhorn.  To the OP of this topic, I ran a weight on a DD table I had years ago...I didn't hear anything different. I have sprungy's now, so weights are out.

[Ericus Rex]

Those Moerchs sure are sexy!

Regarding your intended setup:

IMO, a clamp is a clamp.  I don't know that any clamp sounds any better than another or that the TT would work any better than the one already supplied with the table.

If that platter is solid aluminium I don't know that you'd get much benefit out of the periphery ring.  The platter would have enough mass already to maintain speed/pitch.

Mat sound already written about above.

[neobop]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread........but Mitsu needed a bit of grado bashing.......

You rang? 
I believe those are stabilizers - used to keep the cart from landing upside down after becoming airborne.  Sort of like training wheels.
 
Doesn't the outer ring help flatten the record? I was under the impression that was the main benefit. BTW, a reflex clamp like a Michell or Sota can help flatten a record slightly. You can choose to use it as a reflex, or just hold the record in place.

neo

[Mariusz]

From my understanding these add on accessories are designed for high mass/torque turntables.
Which is why my intention was to experiment with TTW copper/wood/polycarbonate mat and copper outer ring (Weight down puck is thrown in at super low $ that it doesn't really makes sense to say no). My DIY turntable with its high mass plinth using low resonance sandwich construction and relatively powerful motor seems to be suitable for the job. Certainly better choice then my newly acquired Townshend Audio Rock Mark III turntable which implements decoupling similar to what's used in their Seismic Sink isolation platforms - inflatable "air bladders" like device/"tube". Lenco direct drive might be another candidate, however that is still a work in progress.

......and another question would be about choice for decoupling a plinth from the audio cabinet/stand? Stillpoints , Mapleshade Heavy feet or TT Soundpoints ?

BTW, here is a layered view of DIY TT. (or see my gallery - photo accessories)

[Mariusz]

You rang? 
I believe those are stabilizers - used to keep the cart from landing upside down after becoming airborne.  Sort of like training wheels.
 
Doesn't the outer ring help flatten the record? I was under the impression that was the main benefit. BTW, a reflex clamp like a Michell or Sota can help flatten a record slightly. You can choose to use it as a reflex, or just hold the record in place.

neo

Well, better tracking = better music retrieval from the groove and possibly more pronounced inner detail.

[Mariusz]

I was in the TTWeights room at RMAF this year and last year. The build quality of his clamps, rings, mats and TTs is outstanding. He machines everything to incredibly close tolerances. I bought one of Larry's clamps for my VPI 17 RCM and not only is it far superior to the clamp VPI provides, it covers and protects the label from cleaning fluids. It has a polycarbonate bottom so if you accidently drop it, it won't scratch the record. I inspected several of his clamps & mats, but did not have an opportunity to hear records played with or without his accesssories. I went to his room 4 times this year wanting to hear one of his TTs, but each time he was too busy explaining the engineering design and build quality to play any music. His day job is manufacturing parts for Canadian & US aerospace industries.

Thanks for hands on experience vinyl_lady. Quality is not in question here........ just have a look at this amazing clip Just another way to make girls dizzy

http://www.youtube.com/user/TTWeights#p/a/u/0/cEujlJYgO2g

You and I both know how little it takes to screw up the vinyl playback or make noticeable, positive difference with the right tools/accessories/tweaks. I do not want to spend anymore on my digital.... it is fine as it is but analog seems like the right place to go broke at the moment

[Letitroll98]

Hello fellow VE refugee. 

Marc, I was wondering when you'd arrive on the scene.

Grado sucks you know. 

Sorry about the hijack, but it's like when you run into old classmates you haven't seen for a while.  Welcome gentlemen.

Mariusz, I use TenderFeet cones, no better than any other cone, just cheap and the right size, and achieved the goal of replacing the cheapo VPI feet with something recommended by other users to improve the sound, which they did.  I assume most like TTSoundPoints in effect, closer to the Mapleshade product than Stillpoints, which are highly engineered products.  When you get into a more complicated system, you're more into the realm of unintended consequences.  So I think you would want to have a design goal in mind, e.g. what resonance or feedback do you want to control, before making a selection on one type of system.   

[Mitsuman]

You rang? 
I believe those are stabilizers - used to keep the cart from landing upside down after becoming airborne.  Sort of like training wheels.
 
Doesn't the outer ring help flatten the record? I was under the impression that was the main benefit. BTW, a reflex clamp like a Michell or Sota can help flatten a record slightly. You can choose to use it as a reflex, or just hold the record in place.

neo

I see you're still a leghumper. 

[neobop]

How does a clamp sound?  Can't answer that one.

As for my mat.  It works great on some tables and not so great on others.  But I don't think this has anything to do with Larry and his manufacturing process.  The mat is very heavy (I said 400 grams above but I think it's actually 4 pounds!  sorry) and works best with unsuspended tables.  As for the sound, it made the bass far punchier and transients far sharper.  It sounded quite good on my Micro Seiki DDx-1000.  Then I put it on my Oracle Delphi (making all necessary suspension adjustments...sigh) and it made that table sound analytical and dry.  I took it off after a week or so (re-adjusting the suspension...sigh).  One added benefit to it is that it stabilizes record speed due to added inertial mass.  Will it sound good on your table?  Only if you want more attack and sharper bass at the expense of sweetness and liquidity.

I think the periphery ring is more for speed stabilization and less for sonic improvement.

Mariusz,
I think Ericus' post here really tells you, about as close as you'll get, what you need to know. Would the idler fan club say your table lacks timing and pace? Even if you think improvement could be made in this area it could wind up sounding dry/analytical. The Oracle has a suspension though. Tough call if you can't try it first.
Good luck,
neo

[mhconley]

Those Moerchs sure are sexy!

Regarding your intended setup:

IMO, a clamp is a clamp.  I don't know that any clamp sounds any better than another or that the TT would work any better than the one already supplied with the table.

If that platter is solid aluminium I don't know that you'd get much benefit out of the periphery ring.  The platter would have enough mass already to maintain speed/pitch.

Mat sound already written about above.

The platter looks like it's solid acrylic.  Mariusz's setup looks a lot like mine except for the obvious difference in plinth.


My Opera Consonance LP-2.0 has a massive 67mm thick acrylic platter and a solid aluminum plinth.  I don't think adding another 4 lbs. of weight to my platter would make any appreciable difference.  I use a 1.21 lb. Thorens Record Stabilizer on my table.  I note a definite improvement in definition and low bass with it.  Looks like Mariusz's table already has a weight/clamp.  My setup has a Mørch tonearm with a Grado Sonata wood body cartridge that mates well and sounds very sweet.

As for decoupling I'm a huge fan of spikes and massive maple butcher block platforms so the TT soundpoints would be my choice out of those listed.

I ran across Pyon Sound yesterday after reading about them in Stereophile.  Check out their cones and shoes.  Beautifully realized and seem to have some solid engineering behind them.

Martin

[Mariusz]

The platter looks like it's solid acrylic.  Mariusz's setup looks a lot like mine except for the obvious difference in plinth.

Good eye Martin. In fact plater/spindle is exactly the same as what's on your turntable. All of the main parts used in this DIY turntable are stripped from Consonance 5.0 Droplet design.

Arm is in fact  Moach Up 4 and  now with Cartridgeman Musicmaker 3.
Phonostage - Consonance Reference 40
And speed box - also Consonance.
Weight puck - Consonance

 

[vinyl_guy]

Thanks for hands on experience vinyl_lady. Quality is not in question here........ just have a look at this amazing clip Just another way to make girls dizzy

http://www.youtube.com/user/TTWeights#p/a/u/0/cEujlJYgO2g

You and I both know how little it takes to screw up the vinyl playback or make noticeable, positive difference with the right tools/accessories/tweaks. I do not want to spend anymore on my digital.... it is fine as it is but analog seems like the right place to go broke at the moment

I've never thought of standing on a turntable. I got dizzy just watching her turn slowly

I do know what you mean. Tweaking vinyl playback can be frustrating at times, but when you get it right, it is heavenly.

BTW, nice job on the TT.

Laura

[decal]

I recently bought a TTWeights Classic 454g weight.What an improvement!! I never realized how much slippage of the album was occuring.Granted,it wasn't a night/day type improvement but,it was very noticeable.Best fifty bucks I've ever spent on my rig.I recommend it highly.

[Ericus Rex]

Let us know how that composite mat sounds if you get it.  I imagine it's a bit less punchy than a solid copper mat.

[mhconley]

Good eye Martin. In fact plater/spindle is exactly the same as what's on your turntable. All of the main parts used in this DIY turntable are stripped from Consonance 5.0 Droplet design.

Arm is in fact  Moach Up 4 and  now with Cartridgeman Musicmaker 3.
Phonostage - Consonance Reference 40
And speed box - also Consonance.
Weight puck - Consonance

Very cool... I just checked out the photos in your gallery.  Very nice work!  I loved the looks of the Consonance 5.0 but could not afford it.  I jumped on the 2.0 when it first became available, before Consonance made their own tonearms.  I am happy I did.  I love the table, arm and cart.

Martin

[Mariusz]

I've never thought of standing on a turntable. I got dizzy just watching her turn slowly

I do know what you mean. Tweaking vinyl playback can be frustrating at times, but when you get it right, it is heavenly.

BTW, nice job on the TT.

Laura

Thank you for the kind words Laura. It was kind of fun putting it all together .....even without cute girl spinning on the platter. 


 

I recently bought a TTWeights Classic 454g weight.What an improvement!! I never realized how much slippage of the album was occuring.Granted,it wasn't a night/day type improvement but,it was very noticeable.Best fifty bucks I've ever spent on my rig.I recommend it highly.

Good to hear positive feedback.
Personal note about the weight and its benefits:
Consonance weight is nice and improves SQ to some degree, however. Unfortunately, my  Ringmat Anniversary mat yields somewhat more noticeable results. Because Ringmat can not be use together with heavy weight pucks, choice had to be made. So, R/A mat stayed with red diy table and weight puck is used with 2 other vintage spinners with more traditional rubber mats.

Let us know how that composite mat sounds if you get it.  I imagine it's a bit less punchy than a solid copper mat.

 TTWeights multilayered mat with polycarbonate, copper and maple real wood top sandwiched together feels like the best compromise. Detail/definition of copper, warmth of wood and dampening properties of polycarbonate makes a lot of sense to me and makes it a slightly safer bet. (I hope)

Very cool... I just checked out the photos in your gallery.  Very nice work!  I loved the looks of the Consonance 5.0 but could not afford it.  I jumped on the 2.0 when it first became available, before Consonance made their own tonearms.  I am happy I did.  I love the table, arm and cart.

Martin

Hi Martin
And thanks for checking out my gallery (it's a random mess)
As to Droplet 5.0 TT, I feel the same way and certainly not in my budget (at least not at the time) however, you gotta love the shape and general look of that table. At least I do.
Red DIY table project wasn't really all that expensive considering the rock bottom paid for all Consonance parts (except phono & speed box). The whole idea behind this project was to build cheap but stable turntable (fundamentals) and spend a bit more on right cart/arm combo, speed control and accessories (window dressing).



I pretty much made up my mind except the idea of decoupling/isolating all that mass from the cabinet underneath. It is either TTW solution or Stillpoints.

Cheers
Mariusz    


   


   

[Mariusz]

Pulled the trigger on few items from TTW. Will report back when it gets here

[neobop]

I see you're still a leghumper. 

Hey Mitsu,
I heard you got booted off VE too. Personal attack?
neo

[Mitsuman]

Hey Mitsu,
I heard you got booted off VE too. Personal attack?
neo

The first rule of Fight Club is..........................

[TheChairGuy]

Ok, Mitsu and neobop...borderline contentious brewing...the next turn could get ugly if either one of you are having a bad day, etc. It happens that easily, as we know.

Just relax your barbs at this point and let it fade away, please 

Thank you, John