[scott_man]

Looking for DAC solutions (not just which DAC, but the signal path from the computer to the amp... (or maybe even speakers) (USB cable, DAC, some sort of volume control...).

My main music "source" is a Mac Mini (Apple Lossless).   The amp and speakers are a pretty good match.  The "gap" is the DAC and volume control...

I was ready to replace the amp (and DAC) with a Peachtree Nova... then, I did some more research... reviews were coming in on the Wyred DAC1 and DAC2 and the db Tranquility.  There are several DACs in the $750 - $1100 price range and some over-achievers at lower price points. [I have actually heard the Nova and it is a very nice piece... optimum at the price point?]

Unfortunately, brick-and-mortar audio salons of old are few and far between, and even then, they wouldn't have these new direct-only products. 

Why do I need a preamp?  Expect for live sports over the radio (NOT streaming due to the league agreements -- this will change soon enough), I only have one "source" ... so, all the switching capability and inputs of a preamp are not necessary (for that matter with the Mini as the source, even multiple digital inputs doesn't appear to be necessary. -- the single-input Tranquility could function as part of my solution).  Some of the DACs have analog or digital volume control and then there are things like "PureMusic" ...  (I know that some preamps can add a magic to a system... I have owned a few of them in the past.  At this point, I would like a system that does NOT need a preamp to be magical).

So, question time:

• How does PureMusic coupled with the W4S DAC-1 compare to the W4S DAC-2 with the volume control?
• Is the Tranquility DAC really a giant killer?
• How do these new DACs compare with some of the older Bel Canto or PS Audio DACs (available used in the price range)?
• What about some of the new lesser expensive DACs from the RMAF such as the Emotiva or DACMini?

My room acoustics are not perfect, digital technology is still changing rapidly... where is the sharp break in the price/performance curve?  If I take a longer-term view, would I get more bang from using a lesser expensive DAC now and plan an upgrade in 2 years or buying-in now for the next 5 years (that seems like an eternity with digital anything).

Internet/direct-marketing... it is wonderful, but I must admit, I do have fond memories of Saturdays spent in audio salons years ago comparing tables, preamps, amps, cable...

Thanks,

Scott

[Bigfish]

Scott:

I sold my preamp a couple of weeks ago and was planning to replace it until I heard a couple of DACs in my system without a preamp.  My system consists of Music in .aiff on a fire wire external H.D. > Mac Mini> DAC> Moscode 402AU > Usher Dancer Mini II's.  At the moment I am searching for a new DAC.  Your post indicates you plan to use software volume control.  Pure Music has dittered volume control that is user selectable for 16 bit, 24 bit or 32 bit control.  I use Pure Music but have not used the volume control feature.  Some folks have told me that software volume could impact the bits of information being fed to the DAC and others have told me it should have little impact, particularly on a 32 bit DAC.  Personally, I hope to find a good sounding DAC with a volume control. 

I have some experience with USB cables that connect the Mac Mini and the DAC.  Many will disagree, which is fine, but my experience is that the impact of the USB Cable on sound quality is not small. 

I know I have not really helped answer your questions as I have found that all audio decisions amount to personal choice. 

Good Luck,

Ken

[walkern]

Hey Scott,

You may wish to consider the Eastern Electric DAC.  Tube and solid state outputs, USB in (as well as an assortment of others), volume control, and the ESS Sabre chip set, all for $750.  Check out the 38 page thread in the manufacturers circle for info on AC member reactions.

Seems like it would suit your needs.  No analog inputs, but you could get 'tube magic' out of it (as you noted... some preamps do offer a certain level of musical enhancement) or solid state control and precision, all in one device. 

I have not compared the EE DAC to the Tranquility or Wyred DACs, but I suspect it would compare very favorably and it costs less. 

There are also a couple of popular buffers readily available for the kit builder that do offer volume control with or without tube magic (Dodd Tube Buffer, and the Pass B1 or DCB1) and without gain circuitry (cleanest possible preamp maybe?).  These would stick you with an extra box (more complications, more interconnects), but may be worth considering if you anticipate needing more input/output control down the road.


Neil

[Bear Heath]

Scott,

I use the Benchmark DAC1 Pre which gives me an additional analog input along with the DAC1 functionality. I use Pure Music but use the volume control on the DAC1 vs the Pure Music.  Highly suggest you use analog volume control vs digital.  You could also skip the preamp portion of the DAC1 Pre and just go with the DAC1, which gives you the volume control also.
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1

[chadh]

Currently I have the DIY Paradise Eva 2 LDR volume control in my system, following a Tranquility DAC.  I, and others, have found the Eva 2 to provide extremely transparent volume control.  This could easily be used in conjunction with whichever DAC you like (the Tranquility does a really nice job, for what it's worth).  The Eva 2 does have switching capabilities, which you apparently don't need.  But it also offers remote volume control.  What's more, it's really pretty cheap (around $350, plus shipping from Singapore, I think).  All in all, it's a pretty inexpensive but very effective option that allows you the flexibility to insert any DAC into your system at all, and use any software at all.  You're not bound to adopt DACs or software with decent volume control.

http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=113

Chad

[werd]

Hello

With dacs that have tag along preamps i guess you need to decide if thats the pre amp you want. You still are deciding on a preamp by using the one supplied. There will be far better stand alone preamps available.

I personally like big solid state amps and i use preamps to tweak or make it work with speakers. Big solid state amps can seem like over kill with high sensitivity speakers but they can be tailored to sound great with a low gain preamp. All i am saying is you lose flexibility by commiting to a on board preamp


But its cheaper so if it sounds good then go for it.

[JLM]

Scott,

Seems like you and I are traveling similar path/time lines. 

I'm at the same crossroad.  Retirement in a few years with aging ears and set opinions.  I plan on going the Mini Mac/PureMusic route.  Peachtree Nova would be an upgrade, but as mentioned above an Eastern Electric DAC with a good 100 wpc power amp should be a bigger step up while still keeping the system affordable and simple.   

With efficient speakers, a Peachtree Decco2 would be another option.  And now Underwood Wally is offering mods to the Decco2 and the Nova.  So what's a fool to do? 

A great time to be audio shopping, even if the smelly good audio shops have largely disappeared.   

[wilsynet]

If it's of interest to you, I have the 2010 Mac Mini, Tranquility SE DAC and Lightspeed Attenuator and Pure Music.  I think the setup is terrific with the Music Reference RM-10.

I should be getting the Modwright KWA-100SE in on tour late this week.  It is 100 watts, and has 50Kohm input impedance which is similar to your Class D Audio SDS amplifier at 47Kohm input impedance.

[scott_man]

Thank you for all the input.

I really wish that I could A/B the W4S DAC, the Tranquility, the EE Dac, the Peachtree, a Bel Canto, and something like the Emotiva or DacMini in the same system (even if it wasn't my system).

Something like the Eva2 is a nice option for those DACs that don't have (remote) volume control if PureMusic just doesn't deliver as much as I want.

Over the years, I have tried to move from chasing the latest upgrade to listening to the music... and I listen a lot more now than years ago (moving the music collection to the computer makes it even easier to find a particular album).  I realize that any of these choices will improve the overall sound quality of my system.  ... it comes down to bang-for-the-buck and a matter of taste...

Maybe sharing a bit more about what I like will help for others to either point me in a direction (or steer me away from something).  PRAT is important, but so is a good sound-stage and a fair amount of accuracy... At the same time, if the presentation is too clinical and dry, once I am no longer amazed with the accuracy, the sound becomes brittle and annoying (great for show, but not for long-term listening).  My musical tastes are all over the map, but mostly jazz, classic rock, and some classical music.

As always, comments welcome...

Thanks.

Scott.

[Mike Nomad]

I've had a Peachtree Nova for close to a year. It really doesn't get any more simple. One box for everything between the source and the speakers. The DAC often reveals previously unheard recording and mastering shortcomings, and being able to take the tube in and out of the chain at the touch of a button has been great. All around, a fantastic bit of kit.

[jdbrian]

Hi

  I recently changed to a Mini with my music on a firewire drive. I am using a Tranquility and their Essential USB cable as well. I find that the Tranquility is very natural and musical. The emotional content in the music is much more evident to me now. You can listen to it for hours and not get fatigued. Because of the lack of digital harshness I can listen louder as well.
  I am feeding it directly into a W4S STI500 integrated amp and driving GR research OB7's. Others have mentioned buffers with volume controls as a possible solution.  Have you considered going to an integrated, which is what I did. I sold my Rotel separates and bought the W4S and it is a far better sounding amp with all the features I need. Simplified my system as well.
  Good luck sorting through the DAC market right now. I fussed for months over all the various candidates and finally decided to go with the one I thought was the most musical solution. It has worked well for me. I am very happy with the sound of my system now.

Brian

[NekoAudio]

I really wish that I could A/B the W4S DAC, the Tranquility, the EE Dac, the Peachtree, a Bel Canto, and something like the Emotiva or DacMini in the same system (even if it wasn't my system).

Emotiva offers a 30-day trial period so you could try it in your system. You might also ask people who live near you if they have any of these DACs and are willing to have you come over to listen. I know people have had good luck with that.

[timind]

Thank you for all the input.

I really wish that I could A/B the W4S DAC, the Tranquility, the EE Dac, the Peachtree, a Bel Canto, and something like the Emotiva or DacMini in the same system (even if it wasn't my system).

As always, comments welcome...

Thanks.

Scott.

Piece of cake. Buy them used and resell if they don't meet your desires.