[Letitroll98]

So I've heard a zillion opinions on this, thus why not add yours.  The theory that I was told is that if you have your speakers toed in a great deal, you place the ribbons on the inside, if your speakers are more straight ahead or toed in slightly, the ribbons on the outside.  I have no idea whatsoever if this makes any sense.  Please add your thoughts.

[SteveFord]

I went with the outside as the soundstage really collapsed with the ribbons on the inside.

[bpape]

As with everything else, 'it depends.'  So much depends on the room, the setup, the listening postion, your preference, and on and on.

Ribbons outside can expand the soundstage width at the expense of pinpoint imaging at times and perhaps a bit more oversized instrument sizes.  This can be helpful in situations where you have a narrow room and want to get a bit more out of it.

Personally, I've never heard any speaker that I really think is at it's best when pointing right at me (lots of toe in).  I generally (not always) prefer speakers toed in to be aimed at a point somewhere 3-5' behind my head depending on the speaker, how close I am to a wall, the dispersona characteristics of the drivers, etc.

Bryan

[jk@home]

I run mine tweeters out, with the panels aim a foot or so behind my head. That position makes the tweets an equal distance triangle to each other and the listening position.

It's something that one has to experiment with, like the poster above said, just too many variables involved.

[Bear Heath]

Recently switched my 1.6s to having the tweeter on the inside, and I do now notice more precise which IMO is better imaging. I have my speakers about 5 feet from the back wall and the the right speaker is 3 feet from the wall and the left speaker borders the opening into my dining room so it is 10 feet from a wall.

I was at Audio Perfection in Mpls listening to the 1.7s and noticed they had the tweeters on the inside so thought I'd give it a try.

[AVnerdguy]

I tried both in my smaller room and I prefer them on the inside. For my set up it's a better image. I auditioned at Audio Perfection in Minneapolis as well and I never asked or looked at how they had them set up - I just loved the sound.

[rollo]

   So where are your tweeters ? on the inside or outside when positioned ? I'm a outside type of guy. any opinions as to why you choose tweeter positioning.


charles

[AVnerdguy]

There was another thread recently - Quasi Ribbon Placement. It's under the Planar Speaker home page. For the record - I have mine on the inside. I tried both and in my small room the inside gives a more focused soundstage.

[pelliott321]

I still wrestle with this. My room is 12 feet wide and I have Maggy IIIa's.  I like to sit close to my speakers (less than 10 feet and right now I am listening with tweeters on the out side with lots of toe in.  This gives me a good centered image but no wider that the speakers.  I use to have Vandy 2ce's which gave me extremely wide image usually far out side walls.  I miss that a bit,  but the Maggys just sound so much more realistic and open.
     Its all a game of give and take, but the journey is fun. 

[Minn Mark]

My room is approximately 13 x 25. I sit close, too (10 ft away). I have 3.6R's and use them with the tweeters on the inside. They are about 8 ft apart. My toe-in is such that the tip of a triangle is just in front of my seated position (~ 8 ft), as per the instruction manual. I have epxerimented with toe-in and prefer a narrower but deeper presentation. In my room with less toe-in the soundstage gets flatter, which I dont prefer. When I auditioned these speakers they were in a much larger room, and the tweeters were on the inside (Audio Perfection in Edina, MN). I have intended for a long time to try them the other way, but haven't gotten around to it. The imaging I get is sensitive to my ears' position, but objects are rock-solidly placed in a deep, wide soundstage which goes well beyond the space in between the speakers.  I feel more othe spatial information is coming from the bass/mid drivers, so I keep them widest apart; thus the tweeters on the inside.

Good thread.

Cheers,



Mark

[Letitroll98]

Perhaps Steve might combine these two threads? 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87504.0

[SteveFord]

Consider it merged.
While I think of it, I really couldn't tell much difference where I had the tweeter section on my MMGs.  Maybe the rooms were too large for it to really be noticeable.

[BaMorin]

My 3.6's are tweeter out. When I ran 2 pairs of MG1's, the outer pair was set square to the room tweeter out. The inner pair abutted them but toed in about 11º tweeter in.  Huge soundstage in all directions.
The new home doesn't have a room big enough for that, so I bought the 3.6's

[raindance]

My take: Ribbons on the outside gives a huge, larger than life soundstage. I like it that way. Also, I found ribbons on the inside a bit bright for my ears (in my room).

Toe in controls how bright the speakers are at the listening position and how focused the sound stage is. It also depends on how far away you sit. Planars are terrible near field speakers, so you need to be 8' or more away for the drivers to "merge". The further away you sit the less toe in is needed (for obvious reasons).

What always fails to be mentioned is lean-back or tilt. I have found that the speakers have to be identical in this regard and usually place them together side by side and adjust feet until this is the case. These speakers are beamy and every axis of adjustment is critical.

The beamy nature is what makes them so desirable, however, as they don't generate as much reflection off the floor, ceiling and side walls as regular speakers do. Just as in live music where line arrays are taking over due to their inherent beaminess and inherent pattern control abilities.

The above all assumes that the speakers are about 4 feet or more from a back wall... Unlike normal speakers the Maggies get brighter when placed too close to a rear wall (or front wall depending how you look at it!).

One of the coolest things with pure planars is that they sometimes perform spectacularly in rooms that have major bass challenges with box speakers. I do not know the reason for this.

[rollo]

My room is approximately 13 x 25. I sit close, too (10 ft away). I have 3.6R's and use them with the tweeters on the inside. They are about 8 ft apart. My toe-in is such that the tip of a triangle is just in front of my seated position (~ 8 ft), as per the instruction manual. I have epxerimented with toe-in and prefer a narrower but deeper presentation. In my room with less toe-in the soundstage gets flatter, which I dont prefer. When I auditioned these speakers they were in a much larger room, and the tweeters were on the inside (Audio Perfection in Edina, MN). I have intended for a long time to try them the other way, but haven't gotten around to it. The imaging I get is sensitive to my ears' position, but objects are rock-solidly placed in a deep, wide soundstage which goes well beyond the space in between the speakers.  I feel more othe spatial information is coming from the bass/mid drivers, so I keep them widest apart; thus the tweeters on the inside.

Good thread.

Cheers,



Mark

  You have that nice rectangular room to work with. If ya like try them about 6' to 6'-6" apart with the tweeteres on the outside. Then move your listening position forward and back to get into the sweet spot. If you have acess to the Sheffield break in disc. Use the out of phase track to adjust toe in so you get that all around you sound. A toe in adjustment of a half inch makes a difference, so experiment.  works wonders IMO. If you can set them up with more distance from the rear wall, benifits will be had. Absorbtion behind the speakers, reflection at the rear wall and difussors at the side walls and clg., toed in approx. 3". have fun trying.


charles