Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter

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nathanm

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« on: 5 Mar 2004, 08:25 pm »
Disclaimer: I have no idea what the hell I am doing.  Please keep this is mind. :scratch:

I'd like to experiment with adding a tweeter to my existing speakers and I want to know what a simple method would be to block low frequencies from reaching it.  My grossly inadequate, superficial layman's knowledge of these things tells me that a person can connect some manner of capacitor across the + and - terminals.  Could it be this simple or am I nuts?  How does one determine what kind of electrical doodad to use to achieve a desired slope\Q? I would like the tweeter to only get stuff above 16KHz if possible.  If there's a way to pull this off with a minimum of parts I may be able to proceed, but if there's a heap 'o gubbins involved I will just forget it.  Thanks!

rosconey

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #1 on: 5 Mar 2004, 08:37 pm »
i saw what you want at parts express -
check the auto speakers section, they are made to go inline for car speakers and hook up to the speaker wire.stop low frequencies pass high ones-if i remember there are a few different levels


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=17318114&St=1597&St2=72090182&St3=-80311080&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=6758&DID=7

_scotty_

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #2 on: 5 Mar 2004, 09:34 pm »
The easiest way is to put a cap in series with the tweeter + . In descending order with 8 ohms impedance first,1.25 uFd,6ohms,1.65uFd, 4ohms2.5uFd. This is a 6db/oct slope at 16k. The values aren't that critical for this application. The quality of the cap is important. Your impedance above 16kHz that the amp sees will be less than you started out with depending on the impedance of your tweeter. It could be lower than 3ohms if the the added on tweeter is a 4ohm driver.

nathanm

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #3 on: 5 Mar 2004, 11:17 pm »
Also, what kind of capacitor are we talking about?  There seems to be a huge variety: Aluminum, ceramic, film, mica, electrolytic; none of which means a whole lot to me at the moment...erm, so which should I use?  How does one determine "quality" in a capacitor?

WerTicus

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #4 on: 5 Mar 2004, 11:32 pm »
okay i think you should start with a film foil polypropolyne one since its a small value cap... probably cost $5 or less.

or metalised polypropolyne which would cost you $2 or less and neither would sound bad as opposed to some other types you have listed. :P

...

to get the information to my tweeter i use a couple in parralel for better quality with the larger being film foil and the smaller being a higher quality film foil  (if you do this way always just add the two values together and always make the smallest one higher quality as it will be taking the highest frequencies.) :)

the value you need will depend on the ohm rating of the driver.  and of course this will get you a 6 db slope of drop off below whatever value you choose.

also you can put it on the negative or positive leg it makes no difference ( some people think sonically its better to put it on the negative but that  that is just to prove their stupidity as a difference isnt a physical possibility ;)  you DONT put this type of filter 'across' the legs

since you want to cross it off at 16khz i would recommend 6db slope as it will not degrade the sound quality as much as 12db or 16db but make sure you tweeter can handle playing half power at 8khz and half again at 4khz... you might wanna cross it of at 20 instead perhaps. :P  or try this with a cheap tweeter to start with though just to see if it explodes :P

i can show you a 12 db one later on if you like but got workies now byes! :)

JoshK

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #5 on: 6 Mar 2004, 02:04 am »
Well if he wants to go over 16khz I think a ribbon tweeter like the Aurum Cantus G2 would be a good choice and it can handle the watts lower.  Not cheap though. Thanks for explaning the simple XO guys, I am just learning this stuff too.  Werticus, your explanation was great!

nathanm

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #6 on: 6 Mar 2004, 03:08 am »
Well the tweeter in question is one I have sitting on a shelf unused and I figured it might be worth a shot to see if I could brighten up the ever so slightly dark sound I have.  Here's its specs.  This is just an experiment really and not something I plan on sinking lots of dough into.  The tweeter itself is already money long since lost.  

VIFA XT25SC30-04
Code: [Select]
Power handling: 100 watts RMS/140 watts max * Znom: 4 ohms * Re: 3.0 ohms * Frequency range: 1,500-40,000 Hz * Magnet weight: 8.5 oz. * Fs: 500 Hz * SPL: 91.5 dB 2.83V/1m *

I am interested to know how to achieve a steeper slope if possible, as even 24db has lots 'o "leakage"\overlap whatever to my ears (my active Behringer XO as my point of reference here) but as I said, if this gets really complicated it'll be over my head anyway.  Thanks.

gonefishin

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #7 on: 6 Mar 2004, 03:46 am »
Hi nathanm,


  If your looking to add a tweeter at or near 16kHz and up.  You need to look at more than just what the crossover point is.  While I do like the sound I've gotten with 1st order passive crossovers on my tweeter...you have to take your current speaker into consideration.  Maybe first order won't work the best for you.




 
Quote
I am interested to know how to achieve a steeper slope if possible, as even 24db has lots 'o "leakage"\overlap whatever to my ears (my active Behringer XO as my point of reference here) but as I said, if this gets really complicated it'll be over my head anyway. Thanks.


   you are going to get some leakage or overlap (how did you come to the 16kHz point?)  but, if it seems to high to you with the behringer 24db slop...I would suggest questioning your crossover point...or possible sensitivity difference between the current speaker system with the hf driver your adding.  Perhaps it needs to be padded down.


   good luck...and have fun!

nathanm

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #8 on: 6 Mar 2004, 05:17 am »
*doh!* It occured to me I could do what I wanted with my existing equipment, at least close enough.  I used the Behringer XO to feed one MB-100 that drove the extra tweeter whilst the Tannoys ran normal via the SE-9.  The XO tops out at 9KHz but I must say it did add that extra bit of hissy 'air' stuff I was thinking of.  Only problem is that I can't tell what it REALLY sounds like in stereo as I only have one tweeter, but my guess is that it might spice things up a bit.  However, off-axis response with the tweeter going really gets wrecked.  Inevitable I suppose with them being separated by 8" or whatever. Hmmm...

I suppose if I ran the 'supertweeters' passively in parallel they'd drop the collective speaker impedence too low and that might not be a "good thing", right?

WerTicus

Electrical idiot desires simple high pass filter
« Reply #9 on: 6 Mar 2004, 08:54 am »
well that is an excellent tweeter you have there... certainly 'up there'

it would have no problems being crossed off at 16 khz first order.

of course its going to be 'too loud' compared to your woofers sensitivty so you will require a resistor... probably 10w  and untill known what your woofer produces then i couldnt say what ohms. :)