Why are there so many differing opinions on room sounds at RMAF?

Hebrew Hammer · « **Reply #80 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 02:33 am »

One thing about this and I am sure this will get flamed.. the excuse of not knowing the music or track is a weak one..

Any good listener IMO should be able to listen to unfamiliar stuff "if recorded well" and know if they like the system or not.... I enjoy it as it broadens my awareness and keeps my eyes open for new stuff to demo.. it's only when splitting hairs on the last 10% is when using familiar music is key..

Tyson · « **Reply #81 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 02:36 am »

I agree completely. BTW, HH, your designs are bad@ss. I envy and respect your skill, especially after building a couple of different speakers on my own. This stuff is HARD, and you make it look not just easy, but graceful.

Hebrew Hammer · « **Reply #82 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 02:58 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 28 Oct 2010, 02:36 am

I agree completely. BTW, HH, your designs are bad@ss. I envy and respect your skill, especially after building a couple of different speakers on my own. This stuff is HARD, and you make it look not just easy, but graceful.

Much appreciated my friend... and you'll get to see/hear mine at RMAF 2011 if your going

Tyson · « **Reply #83 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:04 am »

Since it's only a 13 minute drive from my condo downtown, I'll DEFINITELY be going

John Casler · « **Reply #84 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:29 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 25 Oct 2010, 11:05 pm

I wonder whether anyone tries the multi-sub method investigated by Welti, intended to minimize spatial variation. I realize time is short, but the rooms are the same year after year, right, so it wouldn't have to be done again the next time.

I haven't seen it, but it certainly may have been done. (and I have not been to RMAF, so I am talking about CES/THE Show rooms)

Wasn't Welti's paper about frequency response variations?

I think while it will to a degree "smooth" bass frequency response in the center (seated) sections of the room, It will not stop the collection in the corners and closer to the walls, which in popular rooms is SRO. And multisub locations out of the mains firing plane can affect timing issues.

One other element and the reason I may not have seen it commonly used, is that most rooms have a standard two channel stereo set up and less frequently use a sub or subs.

I know we have used them a few times, but no more than two locations for practical, aesthetic, and logistical (space/set up/wiring/powering) reasons.

Last year no subs, the year before that 4 subs, but they were stacked on each side of the room to create a DIPOLE bass.

I'd like to set up a Quadratic Push/Pull sub set up, but that would really take some doing.

Mama Virtue · « **Reply #85 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:26 pm »

So what I'm hearing is, next year at RMAF, Virtue should have no sign, other then "enter here" and we'll have little aisle lights to guide you to your chairs play some music in total darkness AND THEN turn the lights on to keep the "visual experience" to a minimum?? hehehe. Honestly though, Virtue gear is made to be seen....so we'd be turning the lights off and on a whole lot!

turkey · « **Reply #86 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:45 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 25 Oct 2010, 11:05 pm

I wonder whether anyone tries the multi-sub method investigated by Welti, intended to minimize spatial variation. I realize time is short, but the rooms are the same year after year, right, so it wouldn't have to be done again the next time.

Duke of AudioKinesis does something similar with his SWARM setup. I would assume he has used it at shows too.

bpape · « **Reply #87 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:53 pm »

Doing the multiple subs can be a bit challenging in a 13x19 room along with equipment speakers, seating for 6, treatments, a table for literature, etc. Oveall it can work quite well, just a bit tough in smaller spaces at shows.

Bryan

turkey · « **Reply #88 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:57 pm »

Quote from: Mama Virtue on 28 Oct 2010, 03:26 pm

So what I'm hearing is, next year at RMAF, Virtue should have no sign, other then "enter here" and we'll have little aisle lights to guide you to your chairs play some music in total darkness AND THEN turn the lights on to keep the "visual experience" to a minimum?? hehehe. Honestly though, Virtue gear is made to be seen....so we'd be turning the lights off and on a whole lot!

My take on it is that you should keep the lights on and the sound off.

I think that the people who get good sound at the shows are those who are good at setting the rooms up. The gear itself seems to be somewhat less important.

If I visit your room, I want to be able to see and touch the equipment. I also want to hear from you why your equipment is worth consideration, your design philosophy, etc. I also want some literature that I can take with me that's informative.

I suppose it's ok if you're playing some background music too, but it's just going to be pleasant noise and not something I'm going to listen to critically.

Mama Virtue · « **Reply #89 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 28 Oct 2010, 03:57 pm

My take on it is that you should keep the lights on and the sound off.

I think that the people who get good sound at the shows are those who are good at setting the rooms up. The gear itself seems to be somewhat less important.

If I visit your room, I want to be able to see and touch the equipment. I also want to hear from you why your equipment is worth consideration, your design philosophy, etc. I also want some literature that I can take with me that's informative.

I suppose it's ok if you're playing some background music too, but it's just going to be pleasant noise and not something I'm going to listen to critically.

hmmm....isn't the point of going to the show to hear the "sound"? I'm confused lol. Turkey, did you visit our room by chance?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #90 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 04:55 pm »

Quote

Much appreciated my friend... and you'll get to see/hear mine at RMAF 2011 if your going

Glad to hear you will be showing off your designs at the show next year! Do you know what you'll be bringing or are you thinking about a new design this year to debut at the show

If we don't meet prior to then, see ya next year in Denver.

turkey · « **Reply #91 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: Mama Virtue on 28 Oct 2010, 04:24 pm

hmmm....isn't the point of going to the show to hear the "sound"? I'm confused lol. Turkey, did you visit our room by chance?

No, I didn't go to RMAF.

I've found that what you hear at a show (or at a local dealer for that matter) has very little to do with what things will sound like in your own home.

So, trying to do critical listening at a show is not very useful and distracts from other things that can be done well in that type of environment.

Pez · « **Reply #92 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:15 pm »

Interesting stance, why is it then that you are ripping into people who attended the show and formulated an opinion based on what they heard? I find it odd that we are all taken in by "eye candy" and voodoo, yet you haven't taken the time to actually show up at RMAF to verify this rather unfounded point of view...

Mama Virtue · « **Reply #93 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:17 pm »

Turkey, that's why we offer a 30-day money back guarantee! It allows people like you to test our sound at your convenience in your home

turkey · « **Reply #94 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 28 Oct 2010, 05:15 pm

Interesting stance, why is it then that you are ripping into people who attended the show and formulated an opinion based on what they heard? I find it odd that we are all taken in by "eye candy" and voodoo, yet you haven't taken the time to actually show up at RMAF to verify this rather unfounded point of view...

Why do I need to go to RMAF to verify anything? I've been to enough shows to know how they work.

The original post seemed to me to be about something that applies to audio shows in general, not just RMAF. (This was just a specific instance of a general phenomenon.)

Pez · « **Reply #95 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:02 pm »

I seriously doubt you spent any time observing the people there to see if they were "judging with their eyes" No way. That's the last thing people look for at these shows. You're asking questions, looking at gear, listening. When did you ever observe someone saying "ohhhh purdy! I'll take it!"?

Mrs. Ninja · « **Reply #96 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:15 pm »

I'll admit it was me the minute I saw Gary Dodd's electric blue battleship monoblocks and he said he would do them in Home Depot orange for me. I said Ooh I want those in my house.

Mrs. Ninja

(Cuz they'd be pretty)

taoggniklat · « **Reply #97 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:46 pm »

For me, the purpose of going to a show like that is to see (and hear) the stuff in person that I would never get to outside of that venue. Plus getting to meet the designers and owners and other audio enthusiasts is a great bonus.

Yes it is true, you can't honestly make a purchasing decision BASED on what you hear at a show like that, as there are many factors involved, but it would be a very boring show if you couldn't listen to anything...

Regarding the original topic, Neither my wife or I enjoyed the Tidal room (400 something I think). In fact it was quite disappointing. They even were kind enough to play one of my tracks and quite frankly it was boring. I actually liked the Aperion bookshelves more, which we had just visited prior to this room. Now I get home an read Stereophiles raving review of the room and it just makes me wonder what happened. It is interesting how different our experiences were.

Do I think Tidal is a bad speaker brand? No, but I certainly would need to listen to them in a different environment.

Honestly I think pretty much all the products at the show have the potential to be good, and that is how I approach each room visited at the show.

DustyC · « **Reply #98 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 08:01 pm »

Frank mentioned that some people judge with their eyes not their ears. True, but I think a few shows back he had some models on display that had a gold 2 tone faceplate scheme that DID look pretty good. I wonder how much buzz and/or sales it generated?

turkey · « **Reply #99 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 28 Oct 2010, 07:02 pm

I seriously doubt you spent any time observing the people there to see if they were "judging with their eyes" No way. That's the last thing people look for at these shows. You're asking questions, looking at gear, listening. When did you ever observe someone saying "ohhhh purdy! I'll take it!"?

You're purposely misunderstanding this, right? Because I don't think you're that dumb.