B&K Components Out Of Business

jtwrace · « **on:** 21 Oct 2010, 07:17 pm »

As a former B&K owner, I'm sad...for the former employees.

http://stratecongroup.com/1010aw2ati2acquireBK.aspx

turkey · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Oct 2010, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 21 Oct 2010, 07:17 pm

As a former B&K owner, I'm sad...for the former employees.

I never paid much attention to them after they ripped off Frank Van Alstine's designs.

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Oct 2010, 11:16 pm »

It's a sad sign of the times. Fewer retailers, less availability to the public, less manuf.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:22 am »

Wow! I used to be a B&K owner too, the ST2020 as I remember. I used to live just down the street from them, in Orchard Park, NY.

Hope ATI survives, they make great amps too.

Anand.

golfugh · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:24 am »

ATI is in the process of attempting to buy B&K out of bankruptcy court.

jtwrace · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:24 am »

Quote from: golfugh on 22 Oct 2010, 12:24 am

ATI is in the process of attempting to buy B&K out of bankruptcy court.

Click on the link I provided above...

*Scotty* · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:46 am »

I always figured B&K borrowed the designs of Erno Borbely,the designer of the DH 101 preamp and DH 200 power amp. While he was working for the David Hafler Corp.,he was the first engineer back in the 1970's to use mosfets in an amplifier in the US. The use of the Hitachi lateral MOSFETs allowed a simpler circuit without a separate thermal tracking circuit to prevent thermal runaway.
Of course amplifiers using this type of lateral MOSFET as output transistors were criticized for having "mosfet mist" or an indistinct sound-stage, which characterizes designs using them to this day.
Scotty

sheadlee · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 01:50 am »

Well...now that just 'sucks'

! I just picked up a used REF70, at what I thought was a great price...now I guess values are going to plummet

.

At least the processor performs great, but future upgrades and service are obviously in peril.

mjosef · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 01:56 am »

Well if ATi buys B&K and wishes to market wares under the B&K brand they would have to offer support, can't just use the name and drop support to recent past user base...there will be bad blood. Bad blood and business never mixes well.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 05:14 am »

Wow, bad news indeed. I'm a long time B&K owner, been running a ST202 amp and a CS 113 preamp (on and off) for quite a few years now. I bought the amp broken (unknown to me at the time) and my repairman couldn't figure out the transistor specs until he called B&K directly. That option is no longer viable. But I think it's a special amp, all the virtues of the lower powered ST140 of Sam Telig fame, but with balls. The preamp has been running strong since I purchased it used years ago. While a mediocre preamp in active mode, it excels in passive mode, sweet and clear.

That being said, B&K has floundered aimlessly in the market for years, ever since their glory days of the ST 140's splash in the marketplace. Running changes in production parts without clear delineation of the modifications. Made their bones in two channel home audio, then switched in mid stream to home theater. The stereo amps never sounded as good as the originals and the home theater products were nice, but always a step behind the leading edge. Support was a nightmare and the dealer network never solid. I'm surprised they lasted this long, no matter how sad I am to see them go in their present configuration.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:34 pm »

Regardless of what we think of their designs or support, it's too bad another American company went under. Doing things differently may have changed their fate, maybe not.

Delta Wave · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 12:44 pm »

That's a shame, I've used and still use a few B&K products, my Ref 30 in direct analog mode sounds great and I've never had any problems with their stuff.

turkey · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 22 Oct 2010, 12:46 am

I always figured B&K borrowed the designs of Erno Borbely,the designer of the DH 101 preamp and DH 200 power amp.

They may have done that too, but the one I was thinking about was a clone of one of Frank's designs. He's got it documented on his web site if you're interested.

Quote

While he was working for the David Hafler Corp.,he was the first engineer back in the 1970's to use mosfets in an amplifier in the US. The use of the Hitachi lateral MOSFETs allowed a simpler circuit without a separate thermal tracking circuit to prevent thermal runaway.

I owned Hafler equipment, and I've also heard some of his newer designs. They're quite good.

Quote

Of course amplifiers using this type of MOSFET as output transistors were criticized for having "mosfet mist" or an indistinct sound-stage, which characterizes designs using them to this day.
Scotty

I've heard a number of mosfet amps that don't display these characteristics.

avahifi · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Oct 2010, 02:26 pm »

B&K's success was based upon their 140 amplifier which was a complete rip-off copy of our original Mos-Fet 150 design, stolen from us. Steve Kaiser, the K in B&K, bought a Mos-Fet 150 from us and their exact copy showed up about 6 months later. By the way that amp never made its power rating, their transformer rails were good only for about 60 watts per channel. Fraud all the way.

We are still here doing fine. I am not at all unhappy to see them fail.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 05:49 am »

Just curious Frank, not baiting you in any way, it's a real question, but why didn't you sue at the time? If not for monetary damages at least for a patent infringement to halt B&K's production and sales of the ST140. If the question is over the line feel free to tell me to shut up with no hard feeling from me, but it seems that if this product and/or circuit design was proprietary to your company you should have been able to prevail. Thanks in advance for any light on the subject.

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 04:55 pm »

We had no patents on the design, it was just our really good original engineering. Letters to B&K resulted only in them telling us to stuff it.

Letters to all the editors of all the major audio publications at the time either got no response at all or as from Stereophile, "its OK for companies to borrow design ideas from others, its done all the time".

My feeling: they are telling me its ok to "borrow" someones' Sony TV set permanently as that is done all the time too. We got no support at all from the industry.

I am really glad to see B&K fail finally. They are a bunch of dishonest scumbags.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

jtwrace · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 23 Oct 2010, 04:55 pm

I am really glad to see B&K fail finally. They are a bunch of dishonest scumbags.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Frank,

Can you please tell us how you really feel?

Phil A · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 23 Oct 2010, 05:13 pm

Frank,

Can you please tell us how you really feel?

I concur - honest scumbags are much better

mark funk · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 05:27 pm »

Hey, I did not like it then, and I don't like it now! Oh well what goes around comes around! Some times it takes a little longer then others. Hope it felt good Frank!

Phil A · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Oct 2010, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: Stu Pitt on 22 Oct 2010, 12:34 pm

Regardless of what we think of their designs or support, it's too bad another American company went under. Doing things differently may have changed their fate, maybe not.

I really concur with the sentiment. It's a loss of an additional choices, jobs and product support for owners. It's a lose lose situation for anyone. Each job lost in a town is a ripple effect from local restaurants serving the employees to other local businesses. Heck, I never cared for the President of the old Circuit City (I believe his name was Richard Sharp) or the stores after he made a mess of it and it probably wouldn't be appreciated (or maybe even tolerated) if I wrote what I thought. I was still very sorry to see it go for the sake of the economy. A company is not just one or two people and I don't see the point of gloating over misery for the company as a whole and the loss it represents.