Ming-Da , Top Quality Tube Products have arrived-Finally!!

Bill Baker · « **on:** 4 Mar 2004, 02:20 am »

Finally, after almost a year of research and choosing just the right products for our lineup, Response Audio now has a few establised models ready for your listening pleasure.
Many of these products are ready for prompt shipping (we are not yet fully stocked on integrated units).
Full tube preamps, 845 mono blocs, phono preamps all available.

Like all the exclusive and special products we carry, full customer service and warranty are standard with us. No fears!! Anybody who knows us knows we stand behind ALL our products.

The link below will take you to our webspage for further details, availability and pricing. Let me know what interest you.

http://www.responseaudio.com/Ming_Da.htm

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 03:26 am »

Why does all this stuff from China have to be shiny? and then to make things worse it's shiny gold and chrome combined... I'm still into the brushed silver/blue LED thing. Or black/red or black/blue or just shiny chrome.

Sorry to whine about how it looks but, I wouldn't have a shiny gold anything in my audio system. Unless I was planning on wearing a shiny gold medallion while I listened.

I'd really like to see a comparison of some Chinese gear. It's 'supposed to be' better value than anything you could pay for in the US. I don't know anyone that actually owns it, though.

I'll be glad to review anything you want to put up against my current setup.

-Carl

Mathew_M · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 07:14 pm »

Yeah, sound aside the stuff looks gaudy. They try to make it look more expensive than it really is. I do like the minimal touches on stuff like the gold plated bias adjustment on the Vac Avatar.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 08:34 pm »

Honesty, I like that. Looking at these componets, what would you recommend that could be done in a shop to make them more pleasing?
What is it about them that is not liked? The polished chassis? Cutaway face? Gold knobs?
I appreciate the honest feedback and also very much willing to make whatever cosmetic changes I can in my shop.

Sonically? anybody in the area is more than willing to stop by and listen. I am hard to impress with affordable tube gear and would not have picked up these products if I did not find them sonically pleasing. The phono preamp is the best I have heard in it's price. I keep dragging more and more records into the store everyday. Of course everything in my test system is tubes.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 09:29 pm »

maxwalrath · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 09:30 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

Sorry to whine about how it looks but, I wouldn't have a shiny gold anything in my audio system. Unless I was planning on wearing a shiny gold medallion while I listened.

Am I the only person that listens to music with all their "ice" on?

rosconey · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 09:35 pm »

hell bill just offer a can of spray paint -customers choice of color- pee green or burnt orange-lol

Carlman · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 11:31 pm »

I don't know what would improve 'the look' exactly. I guess a lack of gold plating would be a good start. It ceases to look like hifi and begins to look like jewelry with too much glitz... I almost expect the volume knob to have a diamond chip indicating its position.

It reminds me of a cheap Chinese pocket knife. They go way too far to make something cheap look nicer than it is.

I wouldn't worry about changing the looks. People will buy it based on its sonic merits regardless of looks. (That is IF the sonic merits are there...) If the looks are the only thing keeping them from buying it after deciding it sounds best, they are just audio snobs. They'll go pay a few extra to have that cool looking Proceed.

(which was probably built right next to it for half the price)

NY is a little out of my way to drop by after work so, I can't stop by but,...... if Bill would bring some of that gear to one of the NY audio meets, that would be even better!!!

Christof · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 12:16 am »

Pitch the gold knobs and have someone make wooden knobs

viggen · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 09:14 am »

I wonder if most of these tube amp manufacturers in Asia all buy their chassis from the same oem. Nohr, ASL and the Ming-Da all look strikingly similar with their sheet metal chassis.

I personally don't dislike the Ming-Da's looks. I was expecting to see something really gaudy after reading these posts. It's not that bad. If anything, I don't like the round gold feet.

Also, dunno why, stereo components in Asian markets tend to be "champagne" color.

How much are the integrated and how do they compare to the Jolida/Ram?

jackman · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Mar 2004, 02:13 pm »

You guys kill me. I checked out the link and expected to see something akin to what Snoop Dog had around his neck in the new Starski and Hutch film! Although I'm not a big fan of gold plated knobs and such, that gear didn't look bad at all. I have seen much more gaudy gear from around the globe. The pricing looks good and Bill has a good ear for sound and value. I expect these products to be in line with the type of excellent value Response offers.

Bill, do you have any plans to offer modified versions of these products? I owe you a review of the RAM CDP that I bought. It's the best sounding digital I have ever heard, period. The new LC Clock also took things to another level. Images are amazingly solid and the sound, from top to bottom, is frightenly real.

THanks!

Jack

PS-Sorry to hiJACK(man) this thread!

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Mar 2004, 06:56 am »

The stuff looks pretty nice to me. Gold is okay in moderation, as I think it's been done here. But if you want some wooden knobs I found a place that sells some super-reasonably priced ones. I can't believe they sell these things for so cheap as they must take weeks of painstaking labor to manufacture!

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C&Category_Code=VOLUME&Product_Count=2

It's nice to see that in a world of such overpriced stuff there's companies that produce really value-driven components like these knobs. They'd be a cheap way to change the look of the Ming-Da stuff.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Mar 2004, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

Quote
But if you want some wooden knobs I found a place that sells some super-reasonably priced ones
.

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C&Category_Code=VOLUME&Product_Count=2 Thanks Nathan ! At such a cheap price , there just flying out the door I bet !!

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Mar 2004, 03:10 pm »

Jack, I still owe you some tubes. Sorry.

Yes, we will be ofering modified versions of these products. I know in the past, Asian products were not of the standard most expected from audio gear but until you get a chance to audition any of these products, I can only ask not to judge a book by it's cover. I can assure you it is not a case of dressing up the outer shell to make an inferior product look like something better than it is. I have opened a few of these pieces now and very impressed with the build and component quality.

I can tone down some of the gold. Maybe removing the top plate on the transformer, different knobs and feet. I would like to get back into the wood plates but not sure how they would match with the polished chassis.

Obviously everyone has their own taste and there are some products that do go over the top. I have been seeing this for many years with people wanting the older style Jolida amps over the new "B" series. This is probably why our Special Edition "A" Series products are still so popular. More of a nostalgic tube amp look?
I still have a large number of these to build releasing only 10 a month.

JoshK · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 12:53 am »

I for one think they look alright but still prefer the anodized black aluminum look. I think the price is right if they sound good. This is where China levels the playing field.

Do you carry the MC3008-AB? Do all the integrated utilize negative feedback?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 02:47 am »

Hi Josh,
There will only be 2-3 more pieces to appear in our lineup in the few days. There will be one 300B mono bloc setup and a 300B integrated. Model numbers are MC300A-R mono blocs and MC300-A integrated. I am establihing the price on these pieces at the moment and don't want to post them till everything is in order. Ballpark is $2,700 for the 300A-R and $1,600 for the integrated unit.
The MC88 has been posted and we are taking orders for the next run of this line for products we are out of stock on.

Agrippa · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 11:41 pm »

Hate to sound like a cheapskate, but I really don't understand why all that lovely Chinese stuff doubles in price, or worse, when it hits foreign shores? All your Ming Da stuff, for instance, cost more than double the Hong Kong shop prices and shipping is very cheap indeed. For those who care to spend a few minutes googling, there are absolutely oodles and oodles of the green stuff to be saved....

Agrippa

Bill Baker · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 12:10 am »

You are correct. But for a dealer to be able to stand behind the stuff with a warranty, you cannot give the stuff away. It cost money for dealers and/or distributors to market, ship and warranty merchandise.

There are a few other dealers selling much of the Chinese gear at lesser prices but there are a few things to consider.

1) Most are less than 60 days warranty if any at all. If you do happen to have a problem with any of these pieces, you would have to send it back overseas for repairs (or any good US repair facility) and wiat 4 weeks or more for repair or replacement. I stand behind all the products I sell with warranty, service and upgarde services available. Many consumers find this a small price to pay for piece of mind. You can buy most any product found in this country from the original manufacturer for less.

People tell me up front they can find these products for less but feel much more comfortable buying from a reputable dealer that offers the customer service to go along with the purchase.
I am not denying your statement as it is true.

2) What most people don't realize is that many of the people bringing this stuff in are doing so with lesser quality parts inside. Chinese manufacturers offer three grades of quality with Grade 3 being the "cheapest" and Grade 1 being the best. The products we bring in use all Grade 1 parts including the transformers.

Agrippa · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 12:43 am »

Your second point is quite interesting, and it is one which has been much discussed lately. I know of several people who have bought Chinese products (from China/Hong Kong), opened them up and found the internal components to be the exact same as in gear bought locally. Then again, others appear to have had a different experience.

I certainly get your (very valid) point in relation to warranties and service. I do feel, however, that prices are often excessive even when these issues are taken into consideration (there are, of course, those who up the price a lot more than yourself). For instance, if I can buy the Ming Da MC34-A from a shop in Hong Kong for $508, then surely a dealer pays significantly less than that?

If for instance you yourself pay $400, then the price has actually tripled at your price point of $1200...

Decent warranties are certainly worth paying extra for, but I personally would never, ever pay anywhere near that much. After all, if I import one and it breaks, I can import a second one and still save money compared to buying a single one locally. Not to mention that I would have spares for every single component in it, bar the one which originally broke.

Agrippa

Bill Baker · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 01:21 am »

Again, your points are also valid but one other thing that has not been taken into consideration is the shipping, marketing and most importantly Customs fees.

Consider this. How much do you think it cost to build a Red Rose or Mark Levenson component compared to the cost you pay for it here in the States. These pieces are made in the same place. I know of a few dealers selling the Meixing EL34 integrated for almost $3k.

I am not here to debate any of your comments and relize that some people are willing to do the overseas purchase but many find it much more convienent to work with US dealers. There is a lot of overhead for dealers, especially stocking brick-n-mortar dealers and I can assure you that the prices you mentioned in your response are a bit on the low side. For myself anyways.

There is information all over the Internet about Chinese hi-fi and for those who want to pursue purchasing from abroad, that's fine. I am not claiming to have anything exclusive with these products and people realize this. I am here to accomidate those who only want to make their purchase with no worries or hassles. Anybody who knows me or has worked with me in the past knows I am not here trying to pull one over. I am a very fair person and enjoy what I do. More than half of my work is modification work on tube amplifiers (actually closer to 75%) and this is what I enjoy doing the most. This requires much more actual physical work as compared to sitting behind a computer and drop-shipping products for the "quick buck". But again, I enjoy it. I find people in general respect me and like working with me and more importantly, I like and respect the people I work with. Yes, this is my job and does need to put food on the table for my family but I have always strived to be fair and honest.

Honestly? Like any other person selling anything in this world........ you do have to make money doing it. It's your business ethics and reputation that separate you from the crooks.

Either way, anyone purchasing one of these products is receiving a good quality audio product that will allow them to enjoy their system for a long time.

Happy Listening!!