[Agrippa]

By all means, I certainly didn't mean to impugn you business ethics or anything of the kind and if it sounded that way I do apologise!  Nor was it my intention to imply that you are skimming your customers - as you point out, there are companies like Red Rose and Mark Levinson out there who will happily mark up their prices by 5-10x, rather than 2-3x.  I simply wanted to raise a point concerning the entire Hi-Fi business and question if we are, in fact, getting our money's worth.  Then again, "our money's worth" is a huge variable.  Most people do, of course, prefer to buy from a dealer and I have no particular problem understanding why they choose to do so.

I do believe (and hope), however, that we will soon see a far more global marketplace, where consumers are increasingly willing to order what they want from where it can be had at the best price.  After all, ordering from China or Uzbekistan is no more inconvenient than ordering from anywhere else as long as the location in question is served by a suitable carrier service - it may take a few days more, but your amp or cashmere overcoat will still arrive at your doorstep in the same manner.  Personally I've been shopping this way for many years and have never once had a problem.

Anyway, I appreciated the exchange of opinions and wish you all the very best!

Agrippa

[Bill Baker]

By all means, I certainly didn't mean to impugn you business ethics or anything of the kind and if it sounded that way I do apologise!

Agrippa,
  No, I did not take any offense to your comments and considered them  to be only honest comments, concerns and opinions. The same goes for my replies, they were meant in a very friendly manner and I hope they were not taken any other way. I just didn't want them to turn into a heavy debate. As I mentioned, I was not disagreeing with the general path of your comments.

  It's been a pleasure. In the end, we are all after the same thing here. The enjoyment of music and the path that brings us there.[/quote]

[sekei]

Hello Bill and everyone else;

I thought I'd drop my .02 into the well here, and point out that as one of the 'other' low priced tube dealers for Ming Da, I was faced with a choice.   I originally started out selling these for about 20% over cost, maybe 30%.   But what became apparent immediately was that I could never do more than just sell units at that price.   If I ever had the first repair bill, it would eat up the entire profit I made, such as it was.

So, my thought was I could sell units w/no warranty at all, and keep my prices low, or I could raise them and sell with warranty and service.

I decided to raise the prices.  Sure enough, a lot of interest dropped off right away, when I did.  But, to me that's fine.  There is always going to be a contest between the discount sellers and the full-service sellers.   If someone wants to buy them for just above cost, sure enough, there are people who will sell them, but the warranty is nil.  For everyone else who wants a bug-free experience, there's the extra cost of warranty and service.

Car dealers are similar.  If Ford could sell you a new car with no warranty or service, then they could drop the price a whole lot.   But would you want it?  Some would, some wouldn't.  

Andrew Aird
Sekei Inc

[nathanm]

What usually went wrong with the amps that needed repair?

[sekei]

Nothing has yet gone wrong with any unit that I have sold.  

I did fry a SS integrated amp that I covered up when it was on...

But even a bias and adjust on a tube amp is a $50 bill if you can find someone who will do it for so cheap.

Regards

Andrew

[JoshK]

Andrew,

Just a thought, nothing more but maybe you could try the Circuit City approach to selling them.  You could sell the amps/pre's/etc for 20-30% over cost with the opportunity to purchase additional warranty (at asking there is none, and state that), other wise the customer has right to purchase reasonably priced service from you in the future (at additional cost of course) if something were to go wrong.   Then you are offering the low prices as well as offering the service if one chooses.  Might not be a bad idea.

[Bill Baker]

Hi Andrew,
 You are absolutely correct. There will be people willing to purchase without warranty knowing that there are service centers around that can repair these products should the need arise.

  Everyone who has purchased from myself has mentioned that they can buy these products cheaper either from a discount seller or direct from overseas. They (the ones who purchased from me) prefered to buy from a US dealer with the customer service and warranty to back them up. Not everyone is a DIY'er that will have no problems opening up the product to do repairs. Those that are...... well you get the picture.

  Another reason for my sales is do to the modified versions. More than 75% of the consumers that have purchased any of the tube products I carry have purchased them with upgrades stating that the upgraded pieces are a better value and still are covered by our warranty. They feel comfortable knowing our reputation for customer service and quality of our work.

  I have never misrepresented myself in regard to where these products are from nor would I ever want to. Poeple know what they are getting and are happy with their purchases.

  From a company who's business is now more than half modification, service and warranty work, I am very familiar with all the Chinese tube products. (No solid state at this camp).

  It would not bother me at all if all I did was modification work. Yes, you do have to work much harder for your money but it is something I truly enjoy. Plus I am set up for for this type of service. And to date, has been very successful. People tell me I need to raise my prices but as long as my family eats every day. I will continue on as always.  This has always been more of a passion than anything else.

[tybee]

I have purchased two upgraded amps from Bill Baker, and I would not hesitate to purchase again from him.  I trust him because he really does stand behind the products and services that he sells.  Although I am a displaced Hoosier, I would be very cautious to purchase from Sekei until he can prove that he can service what he sells.

My 2 cents!

[Mondie]

Hi,

l am curious if anyone has bought a Ming Da amp on the board.

l am interested in the 845-300B monoblocks if anyone has any comments  

Cheers Simon

[Bill Baker]

Hi Simon,
  While I have to admit, I have never heard these particular amps personally, those I have have spoken with that have said they were the best they ever heard (in their catagory of course).
 While I can't say to much at this point (only because I don't yet know the details), there will be a new upgraded version released in the US sometime this year. I will be bring them in when available. Till then, we can only speculate.

[Bill Baker]

l am interested in the 845-300B monoblocks if anyone has any comments

 Okay, here is the latest details. We hope to have the new 845-300B amplifiers by the end of first quarter. I will be releasing further details as they come in. We will also have available a new 300B integrated unit at 25 watts per channel (2x 300Bs per channel).

 There is also a new product that Response Audio will be bringing out based on the circuitry of the MC3 preamp. More news on this will be released by the end of January 2005!!

[beat]

Hi Bill,
I wish I was closer so I could come hear those bad boys! So, I know you were dropping much of the Ming da line, will this be the only Ming da product you'll be bringing in? What is going on with them anyway? I heard they got bought out or something. What is the scoop?
thanks, beat

[Bill Baker]

So, I know you were dropping much of the Ming da line, will this be the only Ming da product you'll be bringing in? What is going on with them anyway? I heard they got bought out or something. What is the scoop?

 Yes, we did decide to drop the line but not due to any quality issues or problems. Here's the deal. The owner of the Ming-Da name sold it to another investor and is takeing the profits from this to develop his own line under a new name.

 I am also in the process of becoming a distributor for a new product line being introduced under a new name. It is this "name" that will be providing the new 845-300B mono blocs as well as a 25 watt 300B integrated unit. They decided not to release a preamp as I will be introducing a new unit under my name (a subdivision of Response Audio).

 I have in fact decided to bring back the Reference MC-3 preamp and a new version based on the circuit under my own name. This has been in the works for some time now.

 The products I will be dealing with are as follows:

 845-300B mono blocs (under new name)
 300B mono blocs (under my name, modified version.)
 300B integrated @ 25 watts (under new name)
 Tube preamp (under my name "based" on the MC-3 circuitry. More information will be released later this month)

 I may also release a KT88 unit mid year.

  As it stands right now, I will be offereing the Reference MC3-REF until I have my unit finalized.

http://www.responseaudio.com/ming-da%20reference%20preamps.htm

[Mondie]

Thanks Bill.

l'll keep an eye on developments next year.

Happy new Year