Nirvana vs Nirvana Plus

CButterworth · « **on:** 3 Mar 2004, 04:20 pm »

Hello,

As a new AKSA 55 owner, Ihave the internal turmoil of upgraditis. My AKSA 55 works wonderfully now that I got the earthing done correctly. When I bought the AKSA 55 a couple of weeks ago, I included the Nirvana upgrade. I did notice that the polarized caps in my basic kitset were the same as in the Nirvana upgrade, but decided to simply continue with construction of the basic version. So, to upgrade to the Nirvana will require replacement of a relatively few parts.

However, now there is the "Nirvana Plus." Considering that I am currently running the amp through cheap (but well reviewed for the the price) Sony 3-way 8 inch speakers, and playing my CD's through my Phillips DVD / CD player, am I really going to notice a considerable sonic improvement in upgrading directly to the "Nirvana Plus."

In other words, given my current set-up will I be getting diminished returns for my investment. I can always go the full upgrade in a year's time or so.

Finally, is the upgrade from basic AKSA 55 to Nirvana that difficult?

I apologise for the long email.

Charlie Butterworth

kyrill · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 05:20 pm »

hi Charlie

The upgrade cannot be more difficult than building the amp in the 1st place.
And obviously less complex. But you have to deconstruct yr amp. loosen the base pcb and desolder some parts.

diminshing returns of investment is more difficult to answer. How well are yr Sony's capable of expressing the sheer delight of better highend sound?

Did your Sony's let you notice überhaupt better or much better sound between the Aspen amp and yr previous amp, assuming your previous amp was not a cheap technics amp from the 60ties.

It is highly posible that to invest in better speakers, 2nd hand or build new by kit will improve the sound thru the AKSA more than the nirwana plus thru the Sony. You can easily sell the Sony via the internet, construct yr own speakers carefully choosen to ultimately match yr AKSA and later on upgrade to the N+ which will open the speakers even more.

Sony is not really well known for good highend sound.

CButterworth · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 06:08 pm »

Kyril,

Nice reply. Well my previous, previous amp was an Arcam Alpha that I used with JBL speakers. I liked the sound very much. However, I had to leave this amp in the UK when I moved to the US and I then bought a really cheap $80 music system that had 15W speakers.

So, when I realized that I could not change the power-supply for the Arcam to US power, I decided on the AKSA. My plans were to buy a good amp, then get good speakers. I now have the good amp, and 15W speakers were simply not going to cut it, hence the cheapish Sony's about which I read a good review. They aren't even close to high end, but for the money will serve as an interim speaker.

Ultimately, I will build a set of speakers. However, this will only happen once we buy a house, which is around a year away. I have been looking at some of the kits sold by Madisound, although after my experience with Hugh Dean, I am thinking that maybe the Aksonics would be better.

In summary, I'll have to stick with the Sony speakers for at least a year because my wife who enjoys the new amp, is quite sensible in where our spare money should be going right now (house deposit funds). I agree with her. Therefore the question of whether the Nirvana or Nirvana plus for the interim.

Sorry for another long post

Regards,
Charlie

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 07:20 pm »

With all this talk about 'Nirvana Plus' does that mean it's officially available now? I've seen no release and I'm around all the time.... and patiently waiting.

BTW, I doubt the Sony's will reveal much difference between the standard, Nirvana, or Nirvana plus. But, I could be wrong. However, after selling mid-fi for a few years, I never heard a Sony capable of detail. Since the upgrades are designed to refine highs and separate details, I just don't think the Sony's have it in them to deliver. However, I would still do the upgrade and know that when you do get new speakers you'll have a world class amp ready to go.

I have a pair of Energy ESM-2's that I bought on ebay to use as an amp tester when I was testing the AKSA. They're now speaker stands. (They're exactly 24" tall) However, they sound pretty good. I don't know if I could tell the difference on them between nirvana/plus/standard differences, though. New I'm sure they were in the $300-500 range. I paid $70 with shipping.

Also, this is a discussion forum, no need to apologize for using it as intended!

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 07:50 pm »

Hi Charlie
What did you think of the AKSA when you first heard it?
What did you think of the AKSA after it had played for 24 hours?
Was there a difference inyour mind?
If there is no difference then perhaps the Sony speakers are not up to the job.
If you heard a difference (a losing of harshness, a more sweet sound) then you Sony's are ok and you would probably hear a difference in the Nirvana Plus.

BTW, is upland CA near Los Angeles?

CButterworth · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 08:52 pm »

Malcolm,

In answer to your questions:

1. When I first heard the AKSA, I was wowed, but then my old system was really, really poor quality

2. I do believe that I have heard a difference over a couple of days. Somehow the sound is a little more refined, although I am a little unsure if this is actually the case. The sound produced by the AKSA feels tangible, as if it could be touched and felt. It certainly doesn't sound stressed. Maybe this is equivalent to the loss of harshness due to playing in.

On my old Arcam, when I played the Christopher Hogwood (Academy of St Martin in the Field) version of Bach's Brandenburgs, I always felt that the sound was incredible and that the amp even revealed detail of the bow rosin scraping over strings. However, I believe that this was slight clipping on behalf of the Arcam. When I played it on the AKSA, I did not hear this slight harshness, instead I got crisp, clean sound and could position the instruments in their relative places in the orchestra. I have still to play some of the old Tangerine dream to see if the amp blows my mind away with that kind of sound - I bet it does.

Finally, Upland is around 25 miles East of LA, near San Bernardino.

Regards,
Charlie

AKSA · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 09:00 pm »

Folks,

Nirvana Plus is NOT available now, and won't be few a few weeks more, but it's on track and I'm just now waiting on component delivery.

Unless you have pretty good speakers, I'd not suggest getting the Nirvana Plus. It's just not cost effective, and one MUST keep the dollars in mind.

Putting in the Nirvana and the Plus is not difficult; exactly as Kyrill described it; some deconstruction, reassembly. (But we are all used to that, both as audiophiles, and as post-modernist reconstructionists

)

I would advise anyone interested in taking on the Nirvana Plus to have good speakers, nice room layout and acoustics, and outstanding CD Player. No sense owning a Ferrari and driving on 1960s tires!! It's the old story - it ruthlessly exposes weaker parts of the chain, and unless you are prepared for this, it might disappoint. I'd love to be able to make it unequivocally better in every respect, but the truth is that good material sounds better, and bad material is hugely obvious.

Cheers,

Hugh

CButterworth · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 09:12 pm »

Hugh,

Good post. You're correct, of course, my audio system has some serious weaknesses

At least my amp isn't one of them. My guess is that I may not hear much difference if I install even the basic Nirvana. I should certainly not get excited about the Nirvana Plus just yet.

Thank-you for the replies and comments.
Charlie

Rocket · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 11:15 pm »

Hi Charlie,

The aksa nirvana is very good anyway.

Why not leave the nirvana plus upgrade for later, until the rest of your system has been upgraded. That way you can space out the improvements in your system and quell the audiophile bug for awhile.

regards

rod

Al Garay · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 07:08 am »

Charlie,

If you are looking for speaker DIY kits readily available in the US, I would recommend:

* Ellis 1801, check the Ellis forum here in AudioCircle
* Dennis Murphy MBOW1 2-way or 3-way, http://www.murphyblaster.com
You can search lot's about it in http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?
* JonMarsh/ThomasW's M8a ported or sealed designs,
http://www.theaudioworx.com/
You can read more about them here:
http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/index.cfm?fuseaction=Threads.listings&forum=6&CFB=1

There are many other excellent designs from Danny Richie (GR-Research) and Rick Craig (Selah Audio) as well.

Al

andyr · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 09:08 am »

Quote from: Al Garay

Charlie,

If you are looking for speaker DIY kits readily available in the US...

And, Charlie, don't forget the AKSonics!!

Regards,

Andy

Carlman · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 01:19 pm »

Quote from: CButterworth

...although after my experience with Hugh Dean, I am thinking that maybe the Aksonics would be better...

I think he's got the Aksonics pretty high on his list. I hope to one day hear the Aksonics.

-Carl

CButterworth · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 04:57 pm »

The Aksonics are high on my list, although I would first have to look at the plans for the cabinets, which may not be too easy to build, although they do not look all that difficult.

I am being drawn with the thought of installing the Nirvana Basic this weekend, although I should really wait for a while. My other weekend option is to build some cheap speaker stands and at least get the Sony's off the floor which may loosen their sound somewhat and improve things.

However, I am still revelling in the glow of owning a working AKSA - it looks so good, with it's single blue LED. For the time being I am thoroughly enjoying using bicycle tires on a Ferrari

ginger · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 03:57 am »

I'm going to disagree with the above.

Of course I have the advantage of knowing pretty much what is in the Nivarna Plus upgrade and my 55 already has the upgrade (or very similar parts).

I'm not giving too much away by telling you that one of the upgrade(s) is Balckgate Electrolytic Capacitors. If you wade back far enough you might find a post where I said I wouldn't use them because they are too damn expensive.

I changed my mind (for good) after trying them out.

ANY amplifier will benefit from the Blackgates due to one overriding consideration. Their noise performance is simply spectacular. After fitting the Balckgates you will hear extra detail. This is because broadband noise (generated by most electrolytic caps) is a masking agent of low level detail in the music - the low level noise is unobtrusive and you won't even notice it there - BUT once the Blackgates are in you will notice that it is gone, you sudenly find that those long silent passages between tracks on the CD are'nt so silent as you thought, its just that previously the music faded into the noise and the ears tuned it out.

The Blackgates impart a real sense of "dead black" background and that low level hiss you hear when you jam your ear hole to the speaker simply is'nt there anymore.

Since screwing down the lid on the 55N Plus (ish) I have been busy fitting Blackgates to my valve amps . An 845 SET and an EL84 Push Pull Ultralinear.

So (if you can manage to scare up the bucks) I suggest you grab the Nivarna Plus upgrade as soon as Hugh has it ready. You may not notice all the sonic improvements with inexpensive speakers BUT you will still notice the noise improvement which will manifest itself as the extra detail which was always there but could'nt be heard due to the noise masking effect.

Cheers,
Ginger

Edit: 8 Mar' 04
Actually the caps in the Plus upgrade may not necessarily be Blackgates - maybe Nichicon Muse, Elna Cerafines or some other high performance, low noise cap. The arguement remains the same.

CButterworth · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 04:25 pm »

Ginger,

I am glad that you disagree, although my wife may disagree with your disagreement (if only from a financial point of view).

It did surprise me that Black Gate caps had not been used in the AKSA. I fitted some to my Meta42 headphone amp and they sound great, although a number of folk said that they lose their "breaking in" when not played for a while. I do not know if this is true or how long it takes for them to begin to lose their sonic qualities.

My guess is that the best that I can do is to hold-off for a while, afterall the Nirvana plus isn't available just yet. I can then see what the discount is for current Nirvana owners.

I do want to perform some kind of upgrade because it is an ideal opportunity to rewire the amp and take the time to make it really neat and professional looking.

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: CButterworth

I do want to perform some kind of upgrade because it is an ideal opportunity to rewire the amp and take the time to make it really neat and professional looking. ...

Same here. I also have a slight hum in one channel that's not present in the other that I'd like to figure out. If I'm upgrading, I have an excuse to do that... and check the bias... and .... etc.

-C