Comparison of Bolder Napalm and Argent Audio Jaden Signature

zybar · « **on:** 3 Mar 2004, 01:32 am »

Well, we did the big digital ic shootout over the weekend and the Bolder didn't sound very good to me (I was extremely suprised by this outcome). So I asked Brian (Bubba996) if he would let me borrow the Bolder Napalm for a day. As I understand it, this Napalm has two bybees in it.

I will spend tonight and tomorrow doing a comparison in my system between the Bolder and Argent Audio products.

Here is my current system:

RM 40's w/ FST, TRT, and Analysis Plus
Rowland 201's
Placette Passive preamp
Sony S-7700 dvd player modified by Empirical Audio for use as transport
Electrocompaniet ECD-1 DAC
Argent Audio Pursang speaker cable
Argent Audio Pursang ic between dac and preamp
Agrent Audio Jaden Signature ic between preamp and amps
Stillpoints
Mapleshade Ultimate Triplepoint Cones
Panda Feet

I should post my findings tomorrow night.

Thanks again to Brian for letting my borrow it and to Chris for sending it to me.

George

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 01:35 am »

I'm interested to know your outcome as well because I was shocked it didn't perform better in our shootout either, but clearly it didn't. It was unanimous as far as I remember but I expected it to sound great.

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 02:20 am »

I think you would have better luck with the Bolder Cable without the bybees than with it.

The bybees have only sounded better to me (on a digicable) with the Mensa DAC.

With other dacs, the sound seemed "overdamped" with bybees on the digicable.

Best of luck on your comparison.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 02:20 am »

George,

Thank you for taking the time to compare the digital cables.

I would like to ask you to also try Bubba's custom Napalm in your HT rig.

Steve says that Bybee Purifiers do not work very well with his modded players.

It would be interesting to get your impressions of the cables using a different transport and DAC.

Marbles · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 02:24 am »

Quote from: Wayne1

George,

Thank you for taking the time to compare the digital cables.

I would like to ask you to also try Bubba's custom Napalm in your HT rig.

Steve says that Bybee Purifiers do not work very well with his modded players.

It would be interesting to get your impressions of the cables using a different transport and DAC.

I did use Steves transport when demoing the DAC's and the bybee inlines so this could have been a problem.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 02:30 am »

Wayne and Rob,

The sound that the Bybee version produced was shut-in, dull sounding, and uninteresting.

This would explain why I thought the non-Bybee Bolder digital ic (I think it was also a Napalm) sounded better than the Bybee version.

I just knew that you couldn't possibly produce something that sounded like we heard.

My rca digital out is busted on my Panny RP-91 that I use for HT setup (I use the toslink output). I do have an old Pioneer DV-05 Elite dvd player that I could use as a transport in the main rig.

George

bubba966 · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 03:35 am »

The Napalm is only made with a Bybee, full ERS wrap, and silver bullet plugs. So if the other Bolder didn't have a Bybee in it, it wasn't a Napalm.

Mine is a little different in that it has 2 Bybees, and is Cryo treated. And as far as I'm aware is the only such cable that Wayne made like that.

Every transport/DAC/HT setup I've personally tried my Napalm on worked out well. Every singe time it performed better than a Bolder digital w/out Bybees. The amount of improvement over the standard digital did vary slightly depending upon the setup, but it was still there everytime.

But, I've never had the pleasure of one of Steve's modded transports. And as has been previously mentioned, Steve doesn't like Bybees in the digital path w/his transports.

OBF · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Mar 2004, 03:52 am »

Out of curiosity, is there any theory on why a Bybee would have any effect, other than possibly adding jitter, to a digital cable? My understanding is a Bybee is some proprietary compound that's designed to reduce "quantum" or 1/f noise. Is this noise something that could affect the 1s and 0s or their timing? Or is the theory that the quantum noise rides in on the digital cable and passes through the D-A stage into the circuit?

zybar · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 04:13 am »

As Wayne and Rob predicted, the Napalm just doesn't like working with Steve's modified Sony S-7700.

I did try to put in my old Pioneer DV-05, but some dust or something must have gotten into b/c it won't read anything.

Looks like it was a big bust.

I will have to leave evaluating the Napalm to somebody else.

Thanks again Brian for giving me the chance.

Cable is heading back.

George

bubba966 · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 05:11 am »

George,

Sorry to hear about the 05.

I'm even more curious now as to why Bybees in the digital path & Steve's modded transports don't mix?

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 05:47 am »

Quote from: bubba966

George,

Sorry to hear about the 05.

I'm even more curious now as to why Bybees in the digital path & Steve's modded transports don't mix?

Not to fret Bubba, we both know how Bybee's in a digital cable expands the dynamics thru the roof. This is the results on both my C-band satellite digital music channels and my CDP. Witchdoctor will attest to the dynamics of my system and as much as he would like to credit my Butler amps, EVERYTHING he heard at my place went thru 1 of my 2 Ridge Street Digital Links w/2 Bybees each. Ask Todd if the sound was dull or uninteresting. He liked to jump out of the chair when I played Coplan's March of the Common Man. And Bubba, I have no doubts that you get the same results with the Napalm in your system also. Some things aren't meant to be shared, must be.

Regards, Robin

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 01:15 pm »

Quote from: bubba966

George,

Sorry to hear about the 05.

I'm even more curious now as to why Bybees in the digital path & Steve's modded transports don't mix?

You'll have to ask Steve, but Dan Wright had installed a Bybee on the digital output of my 7700, and part of Steve's mods was to remove it.

The transport sounded better after I got it back from Steve.

I did like the sound of Bybees in the digital path before the Mensa, but not any other DACs.

I do have Bybees on my IC's between the pre-amp and amps, and I also have them at the speaker terminations, so it's not like I don't like Bybees.

I agree with Zybar on what Bybees on the digicable (or maybe just the Bolder cable) do with most DAC's when used with Steve's modded transports. When I said overdamped, I meant all the frequencies. I beleive George did a better job of spelling this out in his description of what he heard.

I will say that when Steve gets done modding a Transport or a Dac, it ends up sounding VERY VERY nice.

I'm looking forward to George having a shootout with an Empirical modded P3a and his ECD-1.

OBF · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Mar 2004, 09:31 pm »

I know Steve goes to a lot of work to optimize the 75ohm digital send/receive circuit in his designs. I was just doing a little research and came across this post. Maybe it helps explains the varying results. If Steve's circuit is "perfect" for digital transmission, then adding a Bybee might make it worse:

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?read=292638

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Mar 2004, 04:08 am »

Well, looks like Double Ugly nailed Steve's P3-A before I could send Steve a yes answer last night (e-mail problems).

I am now considering just taking the plunge and having him modify my ECD-1 dac with his best mods + his specialized SuperClock 2. He also has a "turbomod" for my S-7700 that he developed after doing mine.

For around $1500 I can have both done. Steve believes this would be an absolutely killer sounding digital front end and I have no reason to doubt him.

I just need to think if I can do better for a one piece or other separates around $3500....

Tough decisions.

George