[CGull]

With two channel I'm not using a sub with my VR-33 with my slp meter i'm getting 25 hz from the speakers minus a db or 2. I've tested the speakers in my room without the sub and i do have a dip at small 50 hz and a little at 80hz. Do these dips just show up because it's a test signal and really does not reflect how the music output is?
 I'm using a Emotiva UMC-1 processor that has a EQ program but I fine it worse then I can do manually since the bass is way to heave using it's auto tune.
 I then try to add my subwoofer (Rythmic E15) for home theater which I crossed at 80hz and run the VR-33 full range, I choose 80hz since that is where the VR-33 rear woofers are crossed at. With the subwoofer i have a huge 10 to 12 db dip with the test signal at 50 hz. and a 6-8 db dip at 80 hz then withthe sub. I been playing with the PEQ but it seens to just move the dip up to 60 Hz.
  What the best why to solve this?
  1) Can i tune this out some how keeping my VR-33 fullrange. ( I believe they sound the best this way)
  2) Cross the sub lower to just fill in under 25 hz?
  3) Stop running the VR-33 full range for home theater use and have them only go to down to 80hz,or 60hz or 50 hz and let the sub do the rest?
  4) Give up my attempt to get surround sounding correct since 2 channels my passion and I've gone 43 years without a home theater also bass is and will be way to heavy in movies?
  5) Do I need a different sub work better with the VR-33. One with it's own auto EQ?

[JackD201]

I say go option 4 and be happy

Set your processor settings to L and R LARGE and leave the sub for just the x.1 duties.

There are too many factors that cause dips from the quality of the sub itself to the room itself. IMO it's just too much trouble since as you say, 2ch is your passion and not multi-channel. If your itching to spend, spend on a bigger display. That should get your mind of the bass quality of the movies 

[ceedee]

Hello CGull,

I agree with Jack.

Cor

[Saturn94]

With two channel I'm not using a sub with my VR-33 with my slp meter i'm getting 25 hz from the speakers minus a db or 2. I've tested the speakers in my room without the sub and i do have a dip at small 50 hz and a little at 80hz. Do these dips just show up because it's a test signal and really does not reflect how the music output is?
 I'm using a Emotiva UMC-1 processor that has a EQ program but I fine it worse then I can do manually since the bass is way to heave using it's auto tune.
 I then try to add my subwoofer (Rythmic E15) for home theater which I crossed at 80hz and run the VR-33 full range, I choose 80hz since that is where the VR-33 rear woofers are crossed at. With the subwoofer i have a huge 10 to 12 db dip with the test signal at 50 hz. and a 6-8 db dip at 80 hz then withthe sub. I been playing with the PEQ but it seens to just move the dip up to 60 Hz.
  What the best why to solve this?
  1) Can i tune this out some how keeping my VR-33 fullrange. ( I believe they sound the best this way)
  2) Cross the sub lower to just fill in under 25 hz?
  3) Stop running the VR-33 full range for home theater use and have them only go to down to 80hz,or 60hz or 50 hz and let the sub do the rest?
  4) Give up my attempt to get surround sounding correct since 2 channels my passion and I've gone 43 years without a home theater also bass is and will be way to heavy in movies?
  5) Do I need a different sub work better with the VR-33. One with it's own auto EQ?

As someone who appreciates both 2 channel and multichannel sources I'd suggest you experiment with options 2 and 3 before giving up.  Playing the 33's full range with the sub may be causing cancellations at the frequencies where you notice the large dips.  Experiment with different high pass and low pass filters (does your processor allow you to set both independantly?) and see what you get.

How much of a pain would it be for you to use 2 channel without the sub for music and multichannel with the sub for movies?  In my case my processor makes it easy by allowing me to set up 2 different speaker configurations and assign either to each input.  For example, I could set up a 2 channel (without sub) speaker configuration for the CD input and a multichannel (with sub) configuration for the DVD input.  Does your processor allow something like this?

Let us know how it goes.

[CGull]

 Hi, Thanks for the replies. My 2 channel amplification is separate from the home theater amp and I only run the sub with home theater. Now that you say cancelation that makes some sense. Because at 20hz, 25hz, 31.5 hz, 35 hz i'm +- 2 db. I can change the low and high pass on my processor, any suggestions where to start with the setting? Do i move both or just play with one? (Example do i have the high and low match. Speakers go to 60hz sub come in at 60hz or have an over lap, speakers to 40hz sub come on at 60Hz) How much is the dip controlled by room? Should I face the sub to the rear wall like the woofers of the VR-33?
                                         Chris

[JackD201]

What processor/receiver are you using Chris?

[CGull]

 Jack,
     My processor is a Emotiva UMC-1 and the sub is a Rythmic E15. I've tried the UMC-1's type of room correction/auto EQ and set the sub so the processor handles all bass management. Set-up this way bass was way to heavy I did not bother to run a test tone cd to check the levels. So I manually set distances of the speakers and the levels with the processors noise generator. I then used the Rive Audio test tone with a Radio shack SPL meter. During this process is when i ran into the 50HZ and 80 Hz dip. Setting the EQ on the processor with a 10 db boost I'm still getting the dip at those hertz. Fact is no matter what boost or no boost the dip at 50hz and 80hz are staying the same.  I've tried using the sub's parametric equalizer but my knowledge is limited in it's us and the adjusting i've done just seems to move the dip up to 60 hz.
 One thing I was thinking was maybe my front wall is too sound deadening in that range, the lower half of the wall is old barn boards with half inch groves every 4 inches but with the sub off I'm not getting the same dip.
 This is one of those issues that drives me nuts! Albert made such a good speaker i'm listening a few hours more to music everyday then i did with my B&W's, everything sounds like music should. Then to keep the promise to the wife I've stepped into the world of surround When something is off that much I find myself listening for the mistakes not watching the movie. I won't even get started complaining how bad the center channel is since I'm hoping that VSA has one up there sleeve for the VR-33 and Vr-35.
                                    Chris

[McTwins]

Hi
Try to understand one thing, there is no roomcorrection or any device in the world where you can correct room mode resonance (nulls) deeps. You should use a RTA pinknoise levelmeter instead of SPL meter. You are not telling the whole story here, speaker, sub placement and how big is your room.

If you want to see changes in the 50Hz and 80Hz deeps the only thing you can do is too move your speakers and subs to different location and lots of measurements with RTA.

Thanks 

 

[es347]

Parallel subs got me flat to within +/- 1.5db, 20-200hz 

[McTwins]

Parallel subs got me flat to within +/- 1.5db, 20-200hz 

Maybe you are right about this. Show me some measurements of your room response.
I want to see;
Reverberation time
CSD(cumulative spectral decay)
Phase response
Group delay
Freq response
Without any EQ
Impulse response

Then we can talk 
Thanks

[es347]

Nope McTwins...way to anal for me    It was a stretch just to take spl measurements at my chair 

[CGull]

 After a few weeks of playing with different cross over points and subwoofer location. I have a much smaller dip and it's only occuring at 60 hz. The speakers are full range and the sub is crossed in at 40HZ. Thank you everyone for the help. Chris.