Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?

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django11

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Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« on: 28 Sep 2010, 11:34 pm »
I like No Rez but find it overpriced expensive.  Anyone have a substitute?
« Last Edit: 14 Dec 2010, 12:06 am by django11 »

WGH

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #1 on: 29 Sep 2010, 12:08 am »
I have used No Rez but I like adding additional bracing and mass better, there is a reason expensive speakers have thick well braced walls - it works. Once you get the box to stop vibrating the speakers disappear.

Here is some info about my home-made triple wall construction that cost me $13.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72808.msg683847#msg683847

Wayne

django11

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #2 on: 29 Sep 2010, 01:07 am »
I'm rather a noob at this.  Does that do something negative to the volume of the box?  I mean do you have to make the enclosure larger to compensate?

WGH

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #3 on: 29 Sep 2010, 02:32 am »
All depends on how large the box is. My speakers have plenty of room so the little bit of Richlite didn't change the volume that much, about 1/10th cubic foot per speaker out of 1.68 cubic feet internal volume.

Wayne

Mariusz

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #4 on: 29 Sep 2010, 02:42 am »
SonicBarrier
few thickness sizes, relatively cheap.

 :thumb:

jtwrace

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #5 on: 29 Sep 2010, 11:24 am »
Maybe Danny will chime in here but you need to make sure that what you're using actually will help the issue(s) at hand.  It's very easy to actually make it worse sometimes.

cujobob

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #6 on: 29 Sep 2010, 12:11 pm »
I was hearing floor tiles, I believe...

How about this?  http://www.earsc.com/pdfs/engineering/CLD.pdf

Cacophonix

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #7 on: 29 Sep 2010, 02:27 pm »
True ... I think you'll find a post here somewhere by Al from RAW acoustics on a cheaper alternative to no-rez or sonic barrier. If i remember right, he advised that we line the inside of the cabinet with vinyl floor tile and then stick open cell foam to the floor tile.

Danny Richie

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #8 on: 29 Sep 2010, 05:44 pm »
Sorry, I started answering this 45 minutes ago but a truck showed up with another pallet load of No Rez that I had to go unload.  :green:

Quote
I like No Rez but find it overpriced.  Anyone have a substitute?

I thought it was cheap for what it does verses the cost and time of alternatives.  :scratch:

The Sonic Barrier from the link above is just a sheet of foam with no damper. It really does nothing other than absorb internal standing waves in the box. If you have a resonant panel, it's worthless.

There are other products that are advertised to be like it but are not, and can make things worse in some areas. Whisper Mate for instance is one to avoid.

You can add mass and weight with various material and it is best that you use something with a different resonance frequency than MDF. Adding more MDF or material like what was posted lessons the resonance some but also shifts it to a higher frequency. So instead of a bass resonance you get a slight mid-range resonance. So some type of damper is still recommended.

The best DIY thing to do is to add a sand layer. See this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=53675.0

Resonances are simply not transmitted well (at all) through sand. Unfortunately this is not a solution for an already built box.

The next best DIY method is to buy industrial floor tiles from Lowe's or Home Depot. It is a little over 1/8" thick and just under a dollar for a square foot (one tile).

You can cut it with a box cutting knife to the needed size. Then use contact cement to bond it to the inside of the box. Be sure to be outside when doing this as the fumes are pretty heavy from contact cement. Most other alteratives (glues) require pressure until dry.

Then go to a fabric store of some kind and get some open cell foam. If you want you can even order the Sonic Barrier foam from PE. It is more expensive than most open cell foam in the fabric stores and you have to pay a heavy shipping fee as it takes up a lot of volume (not heavy). You might like that alternative though better than driving around town and shopping for a good dense fabric foam.

Okay then you have to cut it into the right sized pieces and bond it in with contact cement. Again watch the fumes. At least it cuts pretty well but can be slow going with scissors or razor knifes.

In the end the DIY stuff is about 70 to 80% as good as No Rez. And if your time is not worth anything then you saved a few bucks.

No Rez of coarse cuts easy on a table saw and the peal and stick pressure sensitive adhesive makes it pretty easy to install. I'll continue to brace well and use No Rez.

There you have it.

jtwrace

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #9 on: 29 Sep 2010, 06:26 pm »
I was hoping that you would chime in here. 

Does the No Rez take up space?  If my cabinet is already built will adding the No Rez affect the size or is it like adding AcoustaStuff? 

Also, is it safe to have No Rez and AcoustaStuff?  I've been using QuietBatt and AcoustaStuff.

http://www.soundprooffoam.com/quiet-batt-insulation.html

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #10 on: 29 Sep 2010, 06:31 pm »
Danny,
I was hoping that you would chime in here. 

Does the No Rez take up space?  If my cabinet is already built will adding the No Rez affect the size or is it like adding AcoustaStuff? 

Also, is it safe to have No Rez and AcoustaStuff?  I've been using QuietBatt and AcoustaStuff.

http://www.soundprooffoam.com/quiet-batt-insulation.html
Correct me if I am wrong, but No Rez is composed of two layers. A heavy damping layer which takes up volume and then the open cell layer which is about 1 inch thick. The amount of volume that the heavy damping layer takes up is cancelled by the open cell layer so overall it's a wash, there really is no effective change in the overall box volume.

Anand.

Danny Richie

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #11 on: 29 Sep 2010, 06:37 pm »
Anand is correct.

jtwrace

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #12 on: 29 Sep 2010, 06:38 pm »
In theory I think you're correct...just wanted to hear what Danny had to say.   :thumb:

Hugh

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #13 on: 29 Sep 2010, 06:59 pm »
IMHO,

By the time you spent our time researching and your money to buy the materials and then your labor to install them, you may spend a lot more effort and money than just buy the No-Rez from Danny. :)

raindance

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #14 on: 29 Sep 2010, 07:11 pm »
What about Dynamat? It is used in car audio all the time.

Mariusz

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #15 on: 29 Sep 2010, 07:22 pm »
IMHO,

By the time you spent our time researching
:scratch:

Please speak for yourself.
If it is too much work for you..... just take some time off.  :lol:

cujobob

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #16 on: 29 Sep 2010, 07:36 pm »
For small cabinets or for cost-no-object, No-Rez is usually worth the cost, but on a budget...it depends.  You can build a nice pair of GR Research speakers for $400-500 and a sheet is like 10% of that cost.

Great product, but there's certainly reason to look into alternatives...especially for big cabinets.  I'll eventually be looking for something to put in some AV123 towers I have and I could never justify No-Rez for those applications, personally.

wushuliu

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #17 on: 29 Sep 2010, 08:08 pm »
Floor tiles work really, really well.

I've only heard good things about Whispermat...

No Rez is pretty pricey, for that money I'd do the floor tiles/foam and spend the difference on something else. Especially if it's a smaller enclosure. Or just build a thicker enclosure with some added bracing if DIY-ing.

For my MTMs, I'd probably have to spend $100+ for No Rez... 'course if you have the money, why not.

raindance

Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #18 on: 29 Sep 2010, 08:15 pm »
For small cabinets or for cost-no-object, No-Rez is usually worth the cost, but on a budget...it depends.  You can build a nice pair of GR Research speakers for $400-500 and a sheet is like 10% of that cost.

Great product, but there's certainly reason to look into alternatives...especially for big cabinets.  I'll eventually be looking for something to put in some AV123 towers I have and I could never justify No-Rez for those applications, personally.

I have some AV123 X-SLS Encore towers and was advised to use No-Rez, but also don't feel it is justified because they just don't sound that good to start with. It will make some difference, sure, but won't cure their excessive politeness and bass wooliness...

Duke

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Re: Cheap and cheerful No Rez substitute?
« Reply #19 on: 29 Sep 2010, 08:25 pm »
I've tried several alternatives, some more expensive and some less, and No-Rez performs the best in my opinion.  I now use No-Rez in several of my commercial products.

When I tried Sonic Barrier, one of the problems was the sticky.  Sometimes it wasn't sticky enough, and sometimes the sticky side would separate from the foam when I was trying to peel the backing off (I've never had either problem with No-Rez).  Now that was a few years ago and perhaps those problems have been solved, but even so it doesn't have the dual properties of the No-Rez.

Danny's suggestion of tile with foam on top is probably a very good low-cost alternative; he has put a lot of thought and energy into addressing these issues so his suggestions here are very well qualified.