[turkey]

Not necessarily emotional/human connection, but there are simply tradeoffs in any design.  For example, Earl Geddes' uses a large waveguide to obtain controlled directivity, but the waveguide generates HOMs which are audible.  The benefit outweighs the drawback for most people, but some will surely find it an issue. 

He also chose a waveguide profile that generates the least amount of HOMs, and then uses a foam plug to render the remainder inaudible.

I don't think I've heard anyone say that the GedLee speakers have the typical "horn sound."

[turkey]

While I put my money where my mouth is and purchased GedLee speakers, I also feel that the Linkwitz Orions (and the Plutos too from what I've seen) are excellent, as are speakers from the likes of PSB and Revel, just to name a few.

[poseidonsvoice]

He also chose a waveguide profile that generates the least amount of HOMs, and then uses a foam plug to render the remainder inaudible.

I don't think I've heard anyone say that the GedLee speakers have the typical "horn sound."

Amen. 

But hip hip hooray to Blair for entering the speaker arena  ! Good luck to you!
Anand.

[cujobob]

He also chose a waveguide profile that generates the least amount of HOMs, and then uses a foam plug to render the remainder inaudible.

I don't think I've heard anyone say that the GedLee speakers have the typical "horn sound."

It's not inaudible, but not as audible as is heard elsewhere.  I'm just using the Gedlees as an example, I own a pair and love them.  They aren't perfect, though.  Nothing is.

[JLM]

IME:

A good speaker (for music) must cover at least 30 - 20,000 Hz up to 120 dB in room.

A good speaker must be 90- 100 dB/w/m efficient and present an easy load to amps.

A good speaker must properly image (throw out dipoles/bipoles/infinite baffles).

A good speaker has a well braced cabinet.

A good speaker does not allow the first rear wave reflection to return to the driver(s).

A good speaker is not fussy regarding room placement/size.


Again IME the ideal speaker would have a single driver (that covers as much of the frequency spectrum as possible).


Realize that a sealed/ported/piped cabinet will only affect frequencies below 300 Hz.  As such a separate discussion should be held for the ideal methods for proper bass reproduction.

[turkey]

A good speaker must properly image (throw out dipoles/bipoles/infinite baffles).

I have to take issue with this one because the Orions image extremely well. They throw a very believable soundstage. I thought it was one of the things they do best.

[bpape]

I would agree.  Those types can image extremely well.  So I guess we can bring back in Maggies, ML's, GedLees, Sound Labs, OB Lowthers, etc.

I also take issue with the rear wave not coming back to the driver.  That's a problem in a box speaker.  It's a room treatment problem with a boxless speaker.

90-100db/w/m for easy load for an amp - only if the amp you choose to use doesn't like non-easy loads. 

Lastly, a speaker must have a well braced cabinet - again, only if it has a box that's trying to contain the rear wave.

[cujobob]

Replying to JLM-

IME:

A good speaker (for music) must cover at least 30 - 20,000 Hz up to 120 dB in room.
-Many different ways to handle bass, so I wouldn't go quite so low as a must for any good speaker.  Plus, if often makes the speaker inefficient.

A good speaker must be 90- 100 dB/w/m efficient and present an easy load to amps.

-The more efficient, the better 

A good speaker must properly image (throw out dipoles/bipoles/infinite baffles).
-Isn't imaging, in many ways, just a product of having speakers react well within a room?  (obviously, need to be designed properly)

A good speaker has a well braced cabinet.
-Should a perfect speaker even need a cabinet?

A good speaker does not allow the first rear wave reflection to return to the driver(s).

A good speaker is not fussy regarding room placement/size.
-I'd like to agree with this statement, but ultimately, we all have different rooms.  Those with perfect rooms have more options.  This really depends on the price-point, I would think.

Again IME the ideal speaker would have a single driver (that covers as much of the frequency spectrum as possible).

[emac]

For me, there isn't really an answer to this question.  I have 4 systems w/ 4 different types of speakers (OB, omnidirectional, hybrid planar, and monitors).  To my ears, certain aspects of each speaker sound more realistic than the other speakers.  For example, I'm partial to drums on the OB speakers and the omnidirectional speakers have the deepest soundstage.   

[JLM]

I modified my previous post from 120 dB (a great speaker) to 110 dB (a good speaker).

A realistic speaker must be able to faithfully reproduce any type of music (any frequency found in music, at any volume found in music, at any dynamic range found in music, and create an accurate 3D soundstage).

All the dipole/bipoles I've heard provide a "wall of sound", not a discrete/accurate set of images.  Seems to me that no musical sources radiate in/out of phase forward/backward, so dipoles make no sense.

Line arrays likewise can't "discern" vertically (everything sounds "x" feet tall).

I'd like to clarify that to me room "fussyness" is to be taken within reason.  IME many audiophiles should be using headphones and "bedroom" 2nd systems based on the rooms they're apparently stuck with.

[*Scotty*]

JLM the height of the image produced can be independent of tweeters vertical placement on the baffle.
I built a simple two-way loudspeaker that would exhibit image height independent of the tweeter height above the floor. The speakers were 26 inches tall and they would place an image on the ceiling dependent on the source material. You could even lay them on their side which put tweeter 5 inches off the floor
and it didn't matter. I don't consider "x"feet tall an imperfection in the loudspeakers imaging if the image height varies with the recording being played,in fact when a system fails to image any higher than height of the tweeter in the  loudspeaker I suspect something is amiss somewhere starting with the loudspeaker.  Likewise when images of vocalists appear larger than "life" in size on some recordings I don't find it too remarkable, considering that most vocalists are close miked, the size is a natural consequence of the way the recording was made.
Scotty

[stereocilia]

I think a compelling case could be made for headphones calibrated to an individual's head-related transfer function (HRTF) (perhaps with a yet-to-be-invented head position compensation system) plus maybe a subwoofer to add the vibrotactile bits as the most most difficult to distinguish from a real sound...in theory, anyway.  I'm not sure if you want to include headphones as a speaker type, though.

[jimdgoulding]

Without addressing the acoustic space - non of the above.

But the most realistic experience I witnessed took place here:

Are those things behind the MBL's acoustic absorbers?  Surely, if they are, they would defeat the omni-directional effect, if not purpose, of those type speaks.  Am I missing something?

[Mariusz]

No, those are ALL SoundLabs - old, new and anything in between. I think he has the collection of them all.....and some custom ones as well. The MBL are the least favorite speakers according to Ralph.
(He uses them for ambient effects only)









There SoundLabs on the 1st and 2nd floor as well.

[Niteshade]

Hi Folks,

I did a little clean-up to remove the tangents I created. Sorry about that!

Have fun!

Blair

[flintstone]

Over the years (40 year hobby) I've heard great speakers of just about every type I can think of. I think anyone who has been around the "audiophile" block 100 times would conclude that there is no "Most realistic" design type.

I think great speakers, along with the other components in your system should make you want to tap your toes..........or maybe get up and dance 

I lost interest in the audiophile listening habit years ago.....very boring, and mostly useless. (Note: I do think everyone getting into this hobby should dabble in these finer points as a learning process.........I'm not anti-audiophile).


Dave

[Niteshade]

Has anybody tried doubling up on speakers in a stereo setup? I.e.: Having four full range speakers up front and directed in such a way to enhance the sound stage. I would believe that this could help with large rooms and if the listener sits far away from the speakers.