Advice

colhogan · « **on:** 22 Sep 2010, 09:54 pm »

Hey,guys!

I was trying to get some opinions on a decision I will be facing in the near future,and was hoping to get some advice from fellow Bryston-Heads:
I am currently using a Bryston.5B preamp along with a 1990-vintage Bryston 3B amp.
My speakers are a pair of Rega R-1's & my Turntable is a Rega P-1 with the glass-platter upgrade,& an Audio Technica AT 95e Ctg.I find myself listening to a lot more LP's nowadays..
First off,I have no intentions of getting rid of the Bryston combo.They may be a bit long-in-the tooth, but they serve me quite well.
My question is: Should I upgrade to a Rega P3-24? I know it is technically better than my P-1'table,but will the phono-stage in my .5B allow me to hear any real improvements?
Should I concentrate on better loudspeakers? I had my eye on a pair of Focal 806V's..

rob80b · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Sep 2010, 11:54 pm »

Hi Colhogan,

First thing, what do feel your current setup lacks in terms of overall music enjoyment.
The Rega P3/24 RB301 would be a nice upgrade from the P1/RB200 but with a newer cartridge, one of Regas own or a high-out put MC.
Your speakers may be fine, as one reviewer said on the R1’s
“Not surprisingly given Rega’s strong turntable background, the R1’s really shine with LP playback, creating that deep sense of rhythmic and musical flow that is the LP’s forte.”
If you’re lacking punch maybe add a sub but it’s impossible to say without more input. The .5 is still a very good pre-amp but Bryton have made appreciable gains with the 3Bs over the years.
Is your sound, flat, lacking dynamics, shrill, not enough base, soundstage, depth, detail, or lacks that touch of realism or musical involvement, just some questions?

Robert

colhogan · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 01:08 am »

Maybe a little light in the bass dept.
I realize you can only get so much low end out of the R-1's.

Mag · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 02:34 am »

My opinion, when I think back to all my progressive upgrades. The source is very important, you may not know you have a crappy source, until you upgrade. Now if it were a cd player I would say, using toslink there isn't that much difference between cheap and expensive player. The analog section is a different story if using analog, crappy analog doesn't hold a candle to a analog in a hi-end player.

If you are pretty sure upgrading your source will make more than a marginal improvement, I'd say go for it. I'm guessing however your source is good enough for your present system.

My opinion, the power source/receiver/amp is the foundation in which achieving good sound should be built on. The better the power the better the sound of everything, from there priorize the weak links in the chain to upgrade.

My suggestion is to upgrade your amp to a 3B SST/2 if you can swing it. That will make the most significant noticeable improvement. From there you can tweak the system sound further by upgrading speakers, power conditioners, hi-end source, pre-amp, etc., knowing your amp is not daming the river of upstream equipment.

rob80b · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 11:27 am »

Quote from: colhogan on 23 Sep 2010, 01:08 am

Maybe a little light in the bass dept.
I realize you can only get so much low end out of the R-1's.

Then you may want to change gears a bit, I'd look into adding a nice 10" or 12" "sealed" sub, maybe a used Velodyne SPL1200R or new Velodyne Optimum which are both very good musical subs. Using the built in crossover to free up the mains and increase dynamics.
When I had a similar setup .5/3B and Rega P2/RB200 years ago with a similar sized speaker I added a Velodyne F1000 and my listening experience took on an all new experience and kept me happy for quite awhile.
I mention Velodyne because I honestly feel they offer the best in terms of a tight musical sub, there are a lot of good subs out there but most are geared toward HT and quite often ported, which might give you more base, are cheaper but not the best for music, especially vinyl.

Just my take.

Robert

alexone · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 08:06 pm »

Colhogan,

how much is the Rega P3-24 (and how much is your Rega P1) ?

al.

colhogan · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 08:32 pm »

The P-1 was $400.00,& the P3-24 lists for $875.00 without the Rega Ctg.
My P-1 has several upgrades,including the glass platter and an AT 95E Ctg,which was much nicer (IMO),than the Ortofon OM5 Ctg that came with the stock version of the P-1.
A while back,I had bought a Rega Bias-2 for my P-1,and didn't like it at all. The Bias-2 was $150.00,& the AT 95E was only $50.00. I thought the 95E was much better..

rob80b · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Sep 2010, 09:15 pm »

Hi Colhogan,

Sorry I was thinking of Rega's original P2 with the RB200, didn't know there was a P1...

...!
I'd probably stick with the P1 you have, the P3 would be an upgrade but not as significant as doing something else in the chain.

Robert

vegasdave · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Sep 2010, 10:13 pm »

Get a Technics 1210M5G.

1oldguy · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 02:54 am »

http://flickriver.com/photos/djbunniebun/3513558292/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv6ikEpVOSM&feature=related

vegasdave · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Sep 2010, 01:10 am »

It's really a good turntable! especially if you slap on a real hi-fi cartridge on there. Very underrated. And for the price, it's a no brainer.

1oldguy · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Sep 2010, 01:00 pm »

Quote from: vegasdave on 26 Sep 2010, 01:10 am

It's really a good turntable! especially if you slap on a real hi-fi cartridge on there. Very underrated. And for the price, it's a no brainer.

I think this is the route I'm going as well.The only way to get better sound is by spending into the multi thousands.At this point it's not something that appeals to me.I would be courious though if anyone here feels there are better TT for about the same money?Even the 30th anniversary is only 1200 or so dollars.

vegasdave · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Sep 2010, 06:10 pm »

Exactly. Cartridges I recommend for the Technics are the Ortofon Bronze and the Audio-Technica AT150MLX. The Audio-Technica is usually discounted.

As far as price, the technics turntable are usually discounted. For example...

http://www.onecall.com/product/Technics/SL-1210M5G/Turntable/_/R-103339

I'm glad I bought my unit back about 4 years ago. I only paid $500!

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Sep 2010, 01:27 pm »

colhogan -

You've got an excellent system, and I agree that the Bryston stuff should be the core of it. They're the best performing stuff. I'm not saying that as a biased Bryston owner; I own Rega stuff too. I'm a big fan of Rega and think the two sound great together.

The P1, R3, and AT cartridge all all entry level/budget friendly stuff. I'm not really sure how to advise you as to which I think will make the most improvement. The speakers will probably make the most change, but not necessarily improvement. So here's a few thoughts...

If you plan on keeping the AT cart, upgrading to a P3-24 isn't really worth it IMO. It'll sound decent enough if you use it temporarily until you save up for a better cart, but it's not worth buying a P3-24 for it.

The R1s are great speakers that are easy to drive and are pretty flexible in placement. They're not going to give you deep bass, no matter what you do with them. Rega's towers are excellent and might be what you're looking for. They're not terribly expensive, have the same house sound, and work well in a lot of rooms.

I don't know the phono card in your .5. I'm pretty willing to bet that it's good enough for a very good cartridge. I have an internal MM in my B60 and use a Dynavector 10x5. Does it a lot of justice. Have you tried an external phono stage to compare yours to? It may be worth getting one that has a return policy so you can compare them and know where it stands.

One last thought - are you ever going to use this system in a bigger room? If you want newer Bryston, have you looked into a second hand B60? I'm sure you could sell your stuff for more than a B60 would cost. Maybe the newer updated preamp and phono section would be an improvement? Just speculating.

I guess I I were to say what I thought you should upgrade first, my advice would be get a P3-24 with a good cartridge. The Dynavector 10x5 is a great cart and works very well on a P3. If that's not within your budget, look into better speakers. There are a ton of them out there. Different doesn't always mean better though.

1oldguy · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Sep 2010, 01:42 pm »

Has anyone seen this table?

http://www.denon100.com/#/en/products/turntable

http://www.selectism.com/news/2010/08/23/denon-dp-a100-direct-drive-turntable-for-100th-anniversary/

http://www.wirefresh.com/denons-deliciously-glossy-dp-a100-turntable-celebrates-companys-100th-birthday/

1oldguy · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Sep 2010, 01:48 pm »

And its new Phono Cartridge looks brilliant.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/647461.html

colhogan · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Oct 2010, 12:42 pm »

Guys:
...Thanks for all the input.Here is an update.
I was able to purchase a Music Hall 5.1 'table for about half of what it listed for new. Thankfully, I bought it from a dealer. To make a long story short, I set it up and listened for about an hour,and came to the conclusion that it was practically identical to my Rega P1'table. (I was able to use the same AT 95E Ctg for comparing.)
The dealer must have thought that I was an idiot for returning it,but I really didn't see the need to keep it,in light of the fact that compared to the Rega,it was a lot harder to set up if you are something of a novice with analog.(Like me.)
So, I guess the search will continue. It seems to me that unless I want to spend $1300.00 on a Rega P5,this turntable upgrade route is a dead-end...

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Oct 2010, 04:27 pm »

The cartridge could have been responsible for why you didn't hear a difference. I'm not a fan of the Music Hall decks (or anything else they make), but it's a better deck than the P1. Preferable is something else though.

I've heard pretty much all the Rega decks side by side (haven't heard the P9). From my own listening, the best combo for the money is the P3-24 with TTPSU and Dynavector 10x5. The P3 with TTPSU sounds better than the P5 without the PSU IMO. I think it's a bit cheaper too.

With vinyl, there's so many variables that it's very hard to get an honest comparison. Decks, carts, preamps, and isolation all play very big roles in it. It's not like a CD player where you can swap one in and out of a system.

I've got an excellent dealer who's a huge vinyl guy. He's big on the Rega and Linn decks. Most people don't have a dealer who's got one deck on the floor let alone about 15 set up in different ways.

colhogan · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Oct 2010, 01:36 am »

I really don't get all this criticism of the AT 95E Ctg. It came highly recommended by Stereophile & quite a few audio rags.

That is why I chose it. I needed some point of reference to start from..
I don't care how good a $500.00 MC Ctg may be. I won't be able to replace the stylus,and will have to have it sent out at some point to be retipped. Not to mention having to deal with those little rug-thread-size wires running out to the headshell.What if I snap one accidentally? Now the whole arm has to go back for service. Meanwhile, no LP's..
...See where I'm going with this? I like SIMPLE & UNCOMPLICATED things.
One of the reasons I got of the Music Hall 5.1'table was how much effort it took to set up & balance the arm. The directions really did not help me very much.The Rega "tables seem to be much more user-friendly.They may not be the last word in detail,but they are simple to understand & set-up for beginners.(Like me.)
I made a resolution to myself a long time ago that if something gives me too much grief, I'll just get rid of it. Life has plenty of aggrevation as it is.No need for it in my audio hobby.

That being said,I really do appreciate the input from you guys. Thanks!

BrysTony · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Oct 2010, 01:57 am »

Quote from: colhogan on 4 Oct 2010, 01:36 am

I made a resolution to myself a long time ago that if something gives me too much grief, I'll just get rid of it. Life has plenty of aggrevation as it is.No need for it in my audio hobby.

Yes!