[kingdeezie]

This is kinda crazy and scary at the same time. I can't figure out what kind of static discharge external could cause the caps in the Nighthawk to blow like that.

I would assume it was a malfunction with something in the Nighthawk itself like a bad capacitor or something. But, I don't have a lot of technical knowledge, so I could be totally wrong.

Good luck with everything. Hopefully you can get it fixed and enjoy it again.

[kgturner]

Do you have a written warranty? If so, maybe you should read it.

Per my Nighthawk's documentation:

"The Nighthawk comes with 3 years unlimited Warranty, it is transferable to second or third owner no questions asked. Parts & labor are included; customer pays the shipping fee only."

Kevin T

[neobop]

You should call him back. Tell him it should be fixed under warranty. A static discharge isn't exactly an act of God. This unlimited warranty is limited to product failure except in cases of static? This is BS. It's not like you dropped it out a 10th floor window on the cement.

You might want to mention this thread. No manufacturer wants bad publicity and this is as bad as it gets. Not only did the product fail, but he won't stand behind it? Bet you get an answer like he was just telling you the extent of the damage and not a bill.
neo

PS. Makes me think twice about a battery powered phono stage with no external grounding. I've had static discharges like you described. Sometimes in the winter it gets dry as a bone. Luckily, nothing blew up.

[kgturner]

I'm gonna call him tomorrow and see what can be done. The unit's only 5 months old at this point. I'm not certain what he means by "unlimited" in the warranty, but the "Parts & labor are included; customer pays the shipping fee only." seems pretty apparent to me.

Kevin T

[JackD201]

Hi Kevin,

Wow. That is freaky indeed!

In the future, it won't hurt to ground your spindle bearing. Attach a ground wire to it underneath. Many fellow VPI owners do this.

Best Regards,

Jack

[SteveFord]

First the cartridge, now this weird thing - have you considered reel to reel tapes?
Seriously, this sounds like a pretty clear cut warranty issue from what you've described.
Hope this works out for you.

[jsaliga]

It's disappointing to read this turn of events.

I'll say.  I bought a Nighthawk too and it is very disappointing to see that Ray isn't going to treat this as a warranty repair.  Great customer service is one of the reasons that people choose to buy from Ray and I'm sorry to see that he's not taking care of the OP.  I really expected that he would have gone the extra mile even if he felt that the damage was caused by his turntable. 

Besides, who's to say that the design of the Nighthawk didn't have a role in it?

--Jerome

[Gopher]

Ray is a great guy who I've met in person numerous times.  I suspect he'll make it right--I've watched him bid on things he didn't want just to support hobby related causes.

Your experience is far beyond normal and I'm sure it just took him by surprise. 

[kgturner]

I just go off the phone with Ray. He said that just the caps blew, the battery was fried, and one of the "controllers" was dead as well. He said he cleaned the board up and none of the circuit lanes were burned, so he replaced all the parts mentioned and he's shipping it back to me today. He stated that the repairs will be $50 plus return shipping.

While I'm not clicking my heals over the bill, I'm not gonna get into an argument with Ray over $50. For future reference, I suggest all Nighthawk owner's carefully consider the placement of their unit because directly under the turntable doesn't look like a good place if you ever have static issues.

Kevin T

[jsaliga]

That's still disappointing to hear Kevin.  Speaking for myself, reading about your experience will probably make me think twice before buying from Ray again.  He's been good to deal with on the two occasions I bought from him...but all it takes is one bad experience to sour the milk.

--Jerome

[neobop]

Strange. I'd think it would either be covered under warranty or not. I guess he figured a static discharge wasn't normal and he's giving you a break? Doesn't make a whole lotta sense. This seems like an all or nothing situation. Because static discharges are not extraordinary events when playing a record, it should be nothing.

Let me ask, is there anything in the owners manual about placement, grounding or otherwise preventing such an occurrence? If you are warned or advised in advance, and you misused the product, then he's giving you a break. Otherwise, as Grado said, it should not have resulted in product failure.

I think it would be prudent for Nighthawk owners, if you get static sometimes, to consider grounding their units.
neo

[95Dyna]

You should call him back. Tell him it should be fixed under warranty. A static discharge isn't exactly an act of God. This unlimited warranty is limited to product failure except in cases of static? This is BS. It's not like you dropped it out a 10th floor window on the cement.

You might want to mention this thread. No manufacturer wants bad publicity and this is as bad as it gets. Not only did the product fail, but he won't stand behind it? Bet you get an answer like he was just telling you the extent of the damage and not a bill.
neo

PS. Makes me think twice about a battery powered phono stage with no external grounding. I've had static discharges like you described. Sometimes in the winter it gets dry as a bone. Luckily, nothing blew up.

Not sure what you're referring to.  I have my Nighthawk external grounding terminal connected to the ground post on the back of my VPI Classic.  It sits under the table without incident so far.  FYI Nighthawk owners, the documentation warns against unplugging the umbilical cord from the power supply when the unit is turned on.

[kgturner]

The little slip with the documentation says nothing about placement or grounding. I'm going to move the Nighthawk to the next shelf down and I've also ground my platter bearing to the tonearm as recommended by Mike at VPI. I also ran a ground from the VPI junction box to the ground prong of the cable connecting my VPI motor to the SDS, also per Mike at VPI. The tonearm and platter share a ground at the VPI junction box now. The Nighthawk will be ground at the junction box again when it returns.

When I told Ray I was going to move the unit to another shelf, he stated that the discharge that took my Nighthawk out was a 1 in a million occurrence. He didn't directly say not to move it. I'm looking to buy a Spin Clean within the next month or two as well so that I can wet clean my LP's and reduce static even further.

Kevin T

[SteveFord]

If you don't have one already, perhaps a Milty Zerostat might help as well.

[kgturner]

FYI Nighthawk owners, the documentation warns against unplugging the umbilical cord from the power supply when the unit is turned on.

95Dyna:

What documentation are you referring to? The only thing that came with my Nighthawk was a little folded slip of paper with Ray's logo on the front, the ad copy info inside with the warranty information. There's no mention of the umbilical cord in anything.

If you don't have one already, perhaps a Milty Zerostat might help as well.

Steve:
 
I sent back the Mapleshade brush as it really did do anything in my setup. I might get the Ionoclast instead as it's similar to the Zerostat for less than half the price.

Kevin T

[neobop]

95Dyna:

What documentation are you referring to? The only thing that came with my Nighthawk was a little folded slip of paper with Ray's logo on the front, the ad copy info inside with the warranty information. There's no mention of the umbilical cord in anything.

Steve:
 
I sent back the Mapleshade brush as it really did do anything in my setup. I might get the Ionoclast instead as it's similar to the Zerostat for less than half the price.

Kevin T

What's this a joke? On the web site it says the unit won't turn on with the umbilical connected. This is shoddy. No instructions and a bogus warranty. You'd expect this with a $75 piece made in China.

I don't think Samuels thought through the implications of having a self-contained unit running with no power connection to ground. A unit plugged in the wall, probably wouldn't have incurred this damage. Sparky was seeking ground and in frustration took out a bunch of critical parts. IMO that battery/AC connector should be plugged in all the time. What's the problem with having the power switch disconnect the power supply as well, or having that red/green light automatically disconnect? Sparky would have jumped the fence and left. Maybe it is a 1 in a million chance. Considering the millions of records played every day..... This is more common than you might think.

At any rate, it might be a good idea to connect that ground lug to a real earth like a water pipe or something. Assuming you have your tonearm ground connected here, don't use 2 other connections to that lug. You'll probably set up a ground loop and get noise. I guess that would defeat the purpose of battery power. 
neo

[neobop]

Not sure what you're referring to.  I have my Nighthawk external grounding terminal connected to the ground post on the back of my VPI Classic.  It sits under the table without incident so far.  FYI Nighthawk owners, the documentation warns against unplugging the umbilical cord from the power supply when the unit is turned on.

Sorry, almost missed this post. A spark of static electricity is just like a mini lightning bolt that originates in the clouds from hugh amounts of static electricity. The lightning bolt is seeking earth - trying to go to ground. It will hit the tallest object, a tree or building, that will take it to ground.

If your phono stage is below the table, then the static has nowhere else to go. Maybe you could put it behind and above the table or ground it to something on the floor? They say that lightning doesn't hit the same place twice. That's a lie. Ask Lee Trevino.
neo

[kgturner]

I don't have a nearby water pipe and all the water pipes in my home look to be made from some type of pvc anyways. I have a ground post on the back of my BPT 3.5 where everything else is plugged in. I'm gonna move the Nighthawk underneath my SDS which is on the shelf below my turntable. That way, the next static bolt will hit something even more expensive. 

Kevin T

[95Dyna]

95Dyna:

What documentation are you referring to? The only thing that came with my Nighthawk was a little folded slip of paper with Ray's logo on the front, the ad copy info inside with the warranty information. There's no mention of the umbilical cord in anything.

Steve:
 
I sent back the Mapleshade brush as it really did do anything in my setup. I might get the Ionoclast instead as it's similar to the Zerostat for less than half the price.

Kevin T

Sorry Kevin maybe I used the wrong term but I consider information provided on the website to be documentation.  You'll find this warning under he Warranty tab.  The reason the unit was designed not to switch on with the power supply plugged in is to not be able to override the battery power and introduce noise.   I really like my Nighthawk as well as Ray Samuels but will definitely chime in if I experience something similar.

BTW, my VPI tonearm cable (made by Nordost) virtually requires that you connect the ground wire to the Classic connector block (due to its construction configuration).  If you're using an independent ground wire you could run it to your BP26 ground terminal or the aforementioned waterpipe as an option however placing your system in front of water pipes could end up causing a far more serious problem than a $50.00 repair bill .

[neobop]

 The reason the unit was designed not to switch on with the power supply plugged in is to not be able to override the battery power and introduce noise. 

That's exactly what I was talking about. How difficult would it be to have the AC supply switch off after the battery is fully charged? You could turn on the supply manually by pushing a button and the red light would come on again. That way the unit is always plugged in and the supply can't override the battery. The green light could activate supply turn off switch and could only be turned back on manually. Maybe you have to be Japanese to figure out something like that?  On second thought, they'd probably design it to be fully automatic.
neo