[Niteshade]

Wood sides are nice, professional paints jobs are good as well.

However, I would like to take this to the next step. Fancier means more $$$, but I have a feeling that my present appearance doesn't always sit well for those who would prefer something other than a retro design.

My present techniques offer the best appearance for the price, hands down in the world of custom electronics. We're exceptionally flexible- which has it's shortcomings as well. Flexibility reduces the use of homogeneous components. If we were to go more homogeneous, then flexibility would decline...BUT turn around time would increase and our outward appearance would be more polished.

Call this thinking aloud. 

The bottom line is we want to improve our appearance and turnaround time. The best advice I was ever given: If you want to know something...just ask!  I have ideas and am not directionless by any means but would like to hear from the audience too. I think you know by now that you're input is  valuable and I have acted on it several times.

[Guy 13]

Wood sides are nice, professional paints jobs are good as well.

However, I would like to take this to the next step. Fancier means more $$$, but I have a feeling that my present appearance doesn't always sit well for those who would prefer something other than a retro design.

My present techniques offer the best appearance for the price, hands down in the world of custom electronics. We're exceptionally flexible- which has it's shortcomings as well. Flexibility reduces the use of homogeneous components. If we were to go more homogeneous, then flexibility would decline...BUT turn around time would increase and our outward appearance would be more polished.

Call this thinking aloud. 

The bottom line is we want to improve our appearance and turnaround time. The best advice I was ever given: If you want to know something...just ask!  I have ideas and am not directionless by any means but would like to hear from the audience too. I think you know by now that you're input is  valuable and I have acted on it several times.

Hi Blair.
As usual, this is my opinion for what’s its worth.
The first thing in your offering that you should consider is an enclosed chassis (Cover/top) most of your competitor’s amplifiers already come with it. It would also be a safety feature for the audiophiles with small curious children that poke their fingers everywhere…
Why don’t you offer a chassis with all the predrilled holes for the options, (Extra inputs and outputs, etc…) you could still offer custom made units, but it would be easier to fit in (Add) the customer’s options at time of purchase and/or later on.
Many audiophiles judge a unit by its front appearance, why don’t you offer a large, thick and rich looking front plate as an option ?
All your toggle switches are pretty basic, how about going with more modern looking knobs and switches. Get the proper tooling to cut out the chassis and I am sure your units will have a more modern touch and regardless how good sounding your amplifiers are, the look always play an important part in the purchasing decision.
How do you buy car, appliance, furniture, even flat screen TV ?
If it does not look good, regardless how good the picture is, it will have an impact on the choosing decision ?
In addition, you have many Beacon models, how about narrowing down you’re offering to only two models and make available options.
I know that it’s easy to make suggestion but to implement them is another story.
Also have a look at what your competition does, sometime it helps.
I hope the above help.
Guy 13.

[Mariusz]

Sound Quality 1st
Looks            2nd

[Guy 13]

Sound Quality 1st
Looks            2nd

Hi Mr. M (Mariusz)
Different people, audiophiles, customers = Different priorities/taste !
Sound quality/looks : 90%/10%, 75%/25%, 50%/50%
I think I am in the 75%/25% category.
Guy 13.

[Mariusz]

Hi Mr G (Guy13)
Me - 90% performance
     - 9% features
     - 1% looks

but I do get the importance of esthetics. 

My advice - get one of industrial design students to toss some ideas and alternatives.
IMO Design = $$$
$$$ that could be used elsewhere
shopping locally for sub-contractors/wood supply helps
accessorize - cones/logo/tube cages/tube protectors/rings around the tube sockets/knobs(wood/metal) etc.

[Niteshade]

Sound quality is VERY important!

You have to admit that appearance is more important regarding marketing and here is why:

Does it matter how something sounds if nobody hears it?

There are many people who judge sound and build quality upon aesthetic appeal. Performance and build quality are clearly secondary when it comes to getting your foot in the door. People judge on looks before anything else no matter if it's a job interview, restaurant, vehicle, building, etc...

We also have people who want something to look as good as it sounds and that is understandable.

Build quality and performance are in reality more important- but NOT from a marketing standpoint. I'm not saying two different things: Aesthetics is the marketing ice breaker. Performance and overall quality are what is discovered after something/someone is purchased, hired, etc..

[JohnR]

Well, if you have tubes mounted a chassis plate then surely there is something to be said for solidity/rigidity/damping of said plate (i.e. not just looks?)

[chlorofille]

Hi Niteshade,

I think your paint finishes are quite appealing, especially the deep maroon finish. However, the switches and knobs are rather plain looking. It has a very DIY look and you might want to consider replacing those to more modern looking ones as Guy 13 mentioned. 

-Dee-

[Guy 13]

Hi Niteshade,

I think your paint finishes are quite appealing, especially the deep maroon finish. However, the switches and knobs are rather plain looking. It has a very DIY look and you might want to consider replacing those to more modern looking ones as Guy 13 mentioned. 

-Dee-

Hi Chlorofille.
There are two kinds of people:
The one that want quality sound in a good looking unit
and the one that only want quality sound and don’t care about the look of the unit and that second person think the manufacturer will charge more for a good looking unit, which is not wrong most of the time.
For me both (Quality sound and the look) are important, because if the unit is ugly looking or should I say : Not nice looking, I won’t put it in my living room or my wife won’t let me put it in our living room.
For my Niteshade Audio SE-15 amplifier the << DIY look >> only applies for the toggle switches and the volume control knob, all the other items, especially the color of the chassis are nice.
Have a nice day.
Guy 13.

[JLM]

Seems like most tube pre and power amps look like DIY projects (form following function I'm sure).

If you want to pull ahead of the competition, try new look (think Fi or Manley for different shapes).

How about different cabinet materials (clear, tinted, or solid color plexiglass for instance)?

[Guy 13]

Seems like most tube pre and power amps look like DIY projects (form following function I'm sure).

If you want to pull ahead of the competition, try new look (think Fi or Manley for different shapes).

How about different cabinet materials (clear, tinted, or solid color plexiglass for instance)?

Hi JLM.
Believe it or not, many chinese tube amplifier manufacturers have original and nice design for their units.
Unfortunately, the sound quality and reliability is not always there...
I wonder if that's different for Jolida ? They are very popular and have been around for many years, maybe by now they know how to build good sounding and reliable units ? ? ? Minds you, I would not buy the Chinese products, I prefer to buy Made in USA units, because I am a Canadian and USA is my neighbour, even if now I live in Vietnam, I am still a Canadian.
Any comments on the above ?
Guy 13.

[Mariusz]

I never come back to restaurants that only look nice. It better serve good food or you will never see me again. 
For example: Zagat rates  restaurants based on how the food tastes 1st. Then comes the price and hygiene. Interior design is pretty much secondary.
And just like in restaurant business, building clientele and exposure is crucial.

But FWIW
Based on my experience with your gear, it not only sounds pretty good but overall finish isn't bad.
If you want to give it a more appealing look, ..... stuff like fancy knobs, cones, automobile finish and exotic wood species are all quite an eye candy.

Personally, I would like to have an option to upgrade to better/fancier connectors. Higher quality volume pot or even better ...... quality step ladder attenuator.

Now, I would keep it clean and simple.
Solid wood box and chrome top works for me.   


Best of luck

Mariusz
 

[rklein]

Below is a picture of the amp which will be in my listening room in about a week along with my matching Beacon III(right Blair?... )




Looks pretty darn nice to me...Would I like to see nicer knobs on Blair's preamps??  Maybe, but certainly not a deal breaker.

Thanks,

Randy

[chlorofille]

There are no visible knobs on that amp! 
That amp looks delightful.

[BobRex]

I agree with Randy, that amp looks beautiful.  What I would suggest is making the wood integral to the chassis, instead of being a skirt.  On the preamps, consider moving the controls to the face, instead of the top plate.  Maybe integrating a remote in leiu of knobs - think of the Sound-Smith strain guage controller.  Maybe even hiding the tubes in the cabinet (remember bigger cabinets = better sonics  ) Yeah, jewelry might attract other with less of a "hair shirt" constitution and may lead to more sales.  After all, everybody "knows" the WBT plugs are better than everything else! 

Look at what Bill (Response Audio) is trying to do.  Acrylic and steel or acrylic and wood is attractive.  Just don't go nuts with the shapes.  Funky shapes just don't go well - think of the old Mission amp and pre.  Beautifully made, but ugly as hell.  Didn't sell worth a damn.

[JLM]

For some reason CD players end up with some of the more innovative looks (Consonance, Raysonic, Shanling).

As far as preamps go Supratek or Unison are lookers IME.

But at the end of the day, I'd rather have a fast car that looks humble than a pretenious ride.

[Niteshade]

Thank you for all the suggestions so far.

I am integrating a new appearance program with lowering production time via new construction methods. It is coming together well.

The current approach to external design came from an industrial approach. Now we're going to try a more soothing consumer-based appearance.

To please both camps: There is going to be a retail lineup of amps and preamps which will receive most of the upgrades. The base model lineup will receive upgrades as well but they will be limited to keep price points down.

There will be circuit differences as well between the retail and base model lines. However, component quality will remain the same.

Design approach: If something is to be made less expensively, do not reduce component quality. Instead, offer basic features. You will see a trend on my web site: Prices reflect aesthetic upgrades as well as circuit upgrades, but I do not offer component upgrades. The best components for the job have already been selected so customers do not have to worry about that. Let's face it: Circuit upgrades is where it's at. There is no better way to improve performance than to have it concretely designed right into the product. This way results can be guaranteed every time. I avoid controversial upgrades, such as caps, resistors and parts that proclaim to do something but it's usually up in the air.

Back to the topic: I am looking into expanding our tooling. Maybe in the next couple of weeks I'll have some GOOD news regarding switches. I may also have another very nice surprise for you!

[Niteshade]

Bigger cabinets can lead to better sonics, it is a fact. Spacing is important. Not only that, but it's easier to wire inside a large enclosure. The elimination of birds nests guarantees better contacts are made.

[Guy 13]

Bigger cabinets can lead to better sonics, it is a fact. Spacing is important. Not only that, but it's easier to wire inside a large enclosure. The elimination of birds nests guarantees better contacts are made.

Hi Blair and all.
With the trend of the manufacturer trying to make everything smaller, more compact, it might be good for the buyers, but for the technician that repair those things, it's a nightmare.
I know what I am talking about, I repair electronic studio flashes and now they are so compact and cramed inside, that you can't even put a finger onside and youmust empty everything that's inside of the flash to reach the defective part.
That's why I like my Niteshade Audio SE-15 amplifier, lots of room under the hood. I have also build my GE Research V-1 an V-2 OB speakers the same way.
Have a nice weekend.
Guy 13.

[Guy 13]

Thank you for all the suggestions so far.

I am integrating a new appearance program with lowering production time via new construction methods. It is coming together well.

The current approach to external design came from an industrial approach. Now we're going to try a more soothing consumer-based appearance.

To please both camps: There is going to be a retail lineup of amps and preamps which will receive most of the upgrades. The base model lineup will receive upgrades as well but they will be limited to keep price points down.

There will be circuit differences as well between the retail and base model lines. However, component quality will remain the same.

Design approach: If something is to be made less expensively, do not reduce component quality. Instead, offer basic features. You will see a trend on my web site: Prices reflect aesthetic upgrades as well as circuit upgrades, but I do not offer component upgrades. The best components for the job have already been selected so customers do not have to worry about that. Let's face it: Circuit upgrades is where it's at. There is no better way to improve performance than to have it concretely designed right into the product. This way results can be guaranteed every time. I avoid controversial upgrades, such as caps, resistors and parts that proclaim to do something but it's usually up in the air.

Back to the topic: I am looking into expanding our tooling. Maybe in the next couple of weeks I'll have some GOOD news regarding switches. I may also have another very nice surprise for you!

Hi Blair and all.
Good news regarding the not too good looking Niteshade Audio switches and a surprise ? ? ? WOW !
You are torturing us but not telling us right away the good news.
How about the good news now, because if you tell us about the surprise, it won't be a surprise anymore ? ? ?
Guy 13.