Antelope Audio Zodiac + (evolving review)

owenmd · « **Reply #180 on:** 30 Mar 2011, 10:54 pm »

Quote from: gabrielo on 29 Mar 2011, 10:23 am

I had a chance to compare Zodiac Gold with Voltikus to my Teddy PSU for a short time.
While the differences were not night and day, they were there.
Teddy sound little bit heavy handed compare with the Voltikus.
Unlike the generic PSU coming with the Zodiac+ both PSU had full body, but with Teddy PSU the body felt over pronounced and mid was little too strong.
The Voltikus sound more natural and easy going.

/gabriel

Hi Gabriel,

Can you comment on any obvious perceived sonic differences between the Gold and Zodiac plus, as it sounds like you've heard both...?

Thanks,
Mark

gabrielo · « **Reply #181 on:** 31 Mar 2011, 04:55 am »

Quote from: owenmd on 30 Mar 2011, 10:54 pm

Hi Gabriel,

Can you comment on any obvious perceived sonic differences between the Gold and Zodiac plus, as it sounds like you've heard both...?

Thanks,
Mark

Hi Mark,

I got the Zodiac+ (with Teddy PSU) at home, but I heard the Gold in my dealer shop using another AMP/Cables/room so impossible to compare.

If I find the time I will try to come with my Zodiac+ and compare the two of them.
thx
/gabriel

gabrielo · « **Reply #182 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 07:41 am »

Question to all of you Zodiac owners, do you feel the the XLR output on the Zodiac is inferior to the unbalanced output or is it my subjective feeling?
I find it hard to tell for certain as XLR out has 14DB higher gain over the unbalanced output, I also don't have two identical cables with balanced and unbalanced connectors (*not even sure if such a thing exists), but I feel that XLR out is harsher than the unbalanced.

Your opinion is welcome
/gabriel

Bigfish · « **Reply #183 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 12:50 pm »

Quote from: gabrielo on 1 Apr 2011, 07:41 am

Question to all of you Zodiac owners, do you feel the the XLR output on the Zodiac is inferior to the unbalanced output or is it my subjective feeling?
I find it hard to tell for certain as XLR out has 14DB higher gain over the unbalanced output, I also don't have two identical cables with balanced and unbalanced connectors (*not even sure if such a thing exists), but I feel that XLR out is harsher than the unbalanced.

Your opinion is welcome
/gabriel

Gabriel:

I have only used the single-ended, unbalanced outputs on my Zodiac+.

I would like to add to your question about the Zodiac+ and ask other owners:

1. What are you using to run the signal into the Zodiac+?

2. Have you tried directly connecting the Zodiac+ to your amp and if so your results?

I use an external hard drive with a fire wire connection into a Mac Mini and dB Audio Labs USB Cable to the Zodiac+. The USB Cable has a cryoed B to Mini B connector to make the connection into the Zodiac+.

Thanks,

Ken

gabrielo · « **Reply #184 on:** 1 Apr 2011, 02:53 pm »

Win7->Foobar2K(WASAPI)->Stock USB cable->Zodiac+(Teddy PSU)->Roksan Caspian M2->Gamut Phi-5
Not using PRE functionality of the Zodiac+ .
I use unbalanced directional cable and currently trying XLR.
Before I was using unbalanced non-directional cables, but had to replace them as they were picking lots of noise (probably from a big power generator outside my window)

turbogti · « **Reply #185 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 10:44 am »

Here are my set ups:

itunes + amarra > stock USB cable > Zodiac+ > unbalanced cables > threshold 10e monoblocks x 2 > M&D mini+ with omniharmonizer

itunes + amarra > stock usb cable > Zodiac+/Dac2 > unbalanced cables > threshold SA 1e monoblocks x 2 > AG Ref 3.0

I skipped the the preamp (threshold Fet HL 10/e), and it sounded better less distortions, with a bit more details, but the volume knob needs to be at around 2-3 o'clock position to output a 85db sound level.

I obtained similar results with the W4S DAC2 (volume level of 55).

both of my set ups are dead silent when i use the DAC2 or Z+ as pre-amp, with no music playing.

hope it helps.

gabrielo · « **Reply #186 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 11:28 am »

Quote from: turbogti on 4 Apr 2011, 10:44 am

I skipped the the preamp (threshold Fet HL 10/e), and it sounded better less distortions, with a bit more details, but the volume knob needs to be at around 2-3 o'clock position to output a 85db sound level.

I obtained similar results with the W4S DAC2 (volume level of 55).

The unbalanced output has -4db gain while the XLR has +10 db gain
not sure if that means that PRE is always working for the unbalanced or that XLR amplifies the signal somehow

ted_b · « **Reply #187 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 01:42 pm »

Gabrielo, I beleive you have those figures typed incorrectly. On my Zodiac Plus the RCA unbalanced has the classic "consumer" level -10dBv (which is a -7.8dBu equivalent) and the XLR is the "studio level" +4dBu (which is a 1.8dbV equivalent). The actual difference is approx 12db in sound (11.78).

Philistine · « **Reply #188 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 11:49 pm »

6 Moons Voltikus/Zodiac Gold preview has been updated - I won't divulge the current status, but it's an interesting read.....

ted_b · « **Reply #189 on:** 5 Apr 2011, 12:05 am »

Phil,
That's the same page 3 that's been up for a few days now. I think his next step is a full review. Seems he is still holding out, likes the Volticus, but is still placing the Burson up there pretty high.

gabrielo · « **Reply #190 on:** 5 Apr 2011, 08:36 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 4 Apr 2011, 01:42 pm

Gabrielo, I beleive you have those figures typed incorrectly. On my Zodiac Plus the RCA unbalanced has the classic "consumer" level -10dBv (which is a -7.8dBu equivalent) and the XLR is the "studio level" +4dBu (which is a 1.8dbV equivalent). The actual difference is approx 12db in sound (11.78).

My bad, I mixed the gain values of XLR and unbalanced.
I didn't know that XLR and unbalanced are using different gain values as this is the first time I'm using XLR (been forced into it because of a noise issue I was trying to filter out)

What causes the different gain ? Does it mean unbalanced is tied to a PRE function or that different voltage cause this change?

thx
/gabriel

MevDinc · « **Reply #191 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 07:06 pm »

Hi All,

I have just read the completed review of the Zodiac Gold by Srajan Ebaen, what a comprehensive and fantastic review it is, as a proud Zodiac Gold owner I am most pleased to see that Srajen gives it the thumbs up.

I am around 200 hrs short of the magic and really looking forward to clocking up the full 500 hrs:)

Srajen, would you be kind enough to try the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning 18V DC with the Gold? Thanks for the great review.

Thanks also to the good people at Antelope for producing such a great DAC.

Happy listening to you all.

Best regards.

MevDinc

ted_b · « **Reply #192 on:** 16 Apr 2011, 01:37 pm »

Quote from: MevDinc on 12 Apr 2011, 07:06 pm

Hi All,

I have just read the completed review of the Zodiac Gold by Srajan Ebaen, what a comprehensive and fantastic review it is, as a proud Zodiac Gold owner I am most pleased to see that Srajen gives it the thumbs up.

I am around 200 hrs short of the magic and really looking forward to clocking up the full 500 hrs:)

Srajen, would you be kind enough to try the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning 18V DC with the Gold? Thanks for the great review.

Thanks also to the good people at Antelope for producing such a great DAC.

Happy listening to you all.

Best regards.

MevDinc

Welcome to AC. But, I'm confused by your question. It's in his Red Wine review right next to the Antelope review, and referred to in the Antelope review. The Antelope is what he used!
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine13/1.html

MevDinc · « **Reply #193 on:** 16 Apr 2011, 06:09 pm »

Thanks for welcoming me Ted.

You are absolutely right, I completely missed the Red Wine review!

zydeco · « **Reply #194 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 11:50 pm »

Ted, Gabrielo, MevDinc

I'm considering the Zodiac Gold / Voltikus for use with my computer-based transport and am writing to get a take on how this will fit into a system that already has a (fully balanced) pre-amp. Yes, I do understand that it's possible to remove the pre-amp and will try this set-up but want to know that it'll all work with the pre-amp as previous attempts to go direct from source to amplifiers have resulted in a perceptible loss in dynamics. Is it possible to by-pass the volume control or does one just set the attenuation to "0" from the volume control? Also, I'm thinking that the unit would sit on my desk so that I can use it with head-phones but this would mean a long interconnect (around 4m ~ 12ft). I'm guessing that the unit won't have an issue driving such long interconnects but it'd be good to confirm.

Cheers, Zydeco

ted_b · « **Reply #195 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 12:58 am »

The Gold will drive 4M just fine. I am using it in single ended mode (cuz that's what I ahd for my pre) to drive 6M. Balanced/XLR would be an even safer choice, and more flexible (XLR outputs have trim pots on them on rear panel).. And yes, you just dial the volume all the way to "0". That's how i had it into my pre.

gabrielo · « **Reply #196 on:** 11 Aug 2011, 08:45 am »

There was a long discussion in another forum I'm registered to about Zodiac+ whether is running in ASYNC mode and if it can really do 196/24 since it using MS default USB-AUdio which is capped in 96/24.

I ran protocol analyzer and Zodiac+ is reported as running in SYNC mode - not ASYNC and not even Adaptive, which can explains why I had to spend so much time disabling most features and HW to get rid of clicks and hisses.
I always blamed this on MS doing something very wrong as I assumed Zodiac+ to be running in ASYNC mode, but it seems the problem was always Zodiac code.

I checked Antelope website and there is nowhere mention of ASYNC mode
There is an icon of A|USB which I assumed means ASYNC-USB, but could mean Antelope USB as well
They do talk about "Custom implementation of the USB chip" which I assumed meant they did their own drivers, but apparently they are using native MS SYNC-USB drivers.

Srajan,
Your review of Zodiac+ says it is using custom USB driver working in ASYNC mode calling it "an asynchronous USB 2.0 Hi-Speed device", was this statement taken from your discussions with Antelope team or that you assumed this is what they meant (more below)?

The following paragraph appears on the bottom of the first page of your Zodiac+ review:
"Antelope's proprietary async USB implementation runs a buffer and field-programmable gate array to apply signal dejittering to byte-by-byte data extraction from the buffer. It runs both Windows and OS firmware for bidirectional communication protocols and special device drivers for USB 2.0 high speed. Actual data processing past establishing the data comm link with the host computer of course remains identical between different operating systems. As Igor Levin put it, "the jitter management module derives the sample rate via a DSP process that is largely insensitive to the USB packet arrival jitter. The reconstructed audio clock is acoustically pleasing and does not contain any measurable jitter products above 10Hz.""

I don't think it is possible to be insensitive to the USB packet arrival jitter without using ASYNC mode, but that's probably why Igor Levin added the dis-qualifier largely.
I guess Zodiac+ is doing a re-sampling of the data and all those statements while not a clear out lie are intentionally misleading.

/gabriel

Cortes · « **Reply #197 on:** 11 Aug 2011, 11:53 pm »

Quote from: gabrielo on 11 Aug 2011, 08:45 am

I guess Zodiac+ is doing a re-sampling of the data and all those statements while not a clear out lie are intentionally misleading.

/gabriel

I have no doubts there is 'intention' there. As for me, this kind of things are deal breakers. Many people want to make money quickly.

BTW, with all due respects to Srajan, who must run a competitive business. It's obvious he's is not a reliable source on sync/async implementations after the Burson HA-160D affair.

brj · « **Reply #198 on:** 12 Aug 2011, 11:48 pm »

Guys, direct questions and investigations into the details of a component's workings are perfectly fine, but please be very careful in discussing probabilities and intentions... that is a fast way to get a thread locked or pruned.

Thanks!

OzarkTom · « **Reply #199 on:** 13 Aug 2011, 08:37 pm »

I am breaking in a Zodiac Gold+Voltikus with a pair of Hifiman HE-5LE cans. The first day it sounded very closed in, but now opening up nicely. I have about 100 hours on it, so I need to break it in a lot more. I am very impressed with the tonality, very smooth.